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Alexander konnte erst mit 13 Jahren Griechisch

Erstellt von AlbaJews, 26.07.2011, 19:18 Uhr · 484 Antworten · 17.832 Aufrufe

  1. #31
    Avatar von De_La_GreCo

    Registriert seit
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    Zitat Zitat von Sazan Beitrag anzeigen
    wenns nach manchen griechen hier geht, ist selbst die arvanitische sprache ein griechischer dialekt.
    was haben jetzt arvaniten damit zu tun????


    geh und spamm wo anders rum kollege


    ihr habt mit alexander den epiroten udn den pelasgern soviel zu tun wie ich mit den aborigines

  2. #32
    Avatar von Paokaras

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    Zitat Zitat von De_La_GreCo Beitrag anzeigen
    was versuchste ihn zu erklären malaka???sein text ist höchstens gut genug damit man sich den hitnern abwischen kann wenn man fett durchfall hat mehr net

    Ich appeliere mal an seine Logik

    Ist doch ne Logische frage:

    Wenn Makdeonier keine Griechen waren und kein Griechisch Sprachen.Wieso übernahmen sie dan die Sprache ihres feindes?(Griechisch)

    und wieso lehrte Alexander bis Indien die Griechische Sprache und Kultur?
    Keine Grossmacht nimmt die Sprache und Kultur vom feind an.

  3. #33
    Avatar von hippokrates

    Registriert seit
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    Zitat Zitat von Sazan Beitrag anzeigen
    mir ist alexander der große scheißegal, aber was du hier schreibst, lese ich zum ersten mal.
    Wir haben auch hier über längere Zeit darüber diskutiert und alle Quellen gepostet.

    Gib einfach - falls es dich interessiert - in der Suchmaschine "Ashmolean Museum Oxford", "Mannheimer Ausstellung", oder "Louvre Museum" ein.



    Hippokrates

  4. #34
    Avatar von Sazan

    Registriert seit
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    Zitat Zitat von De_La_GreCo Beitrag anzeigen
    was haben jetzt arvaniten damit zu tun????


    geh und spamm wo anders rum kollege


    ihr habt mit alexander den epiroten udn den pelasgern soviel zu tun wie ich mit den aborigines
    ich schwör dir, mir geht alexander der große, der in wahrheit klitzeklein war, am arsch vorbei.. was könnt ihr griechen euch jetzt davon kaufen?

    ja, ja,.. wie ist das in griechenland... ihr nennt das arvanitische auch "die alte sprache"... prost!

  5. #35
    Avatar von De_La_GreCo

    Registriert seit
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    Zitat Zitat von Axha Paqarriz Beitrag anzeigen
    Ich habe nur den Text zitiert mehr nicht und ich denke das die Makedonier ein Griechischer Stamm waren verglichen mit Dardanern und Illyriern in dem Text steht drin das die Mutter Alexanders Illyrierin war was ihn aber noch lange nicht zum Griechen macht, im Text wird aber auch behauptet das Strabon schrieb das die Makedonier eher mit den Illyriern verwandt waren obs stimmt ist die andere frage
    wieder falsch


    alexanders mutter war epirotin und somit griechin


    die epiroten rühmten sich damit anchfahre des achilles und neoptolemäus zu sein??waren das etwa auch illyrer??




    aber bitteschön noch ein text




    The region of Hellas known as Epeiros was first settled by Hellenic colonists in the 6th Century BC. They set up a dynasty known as the Molossians. The Molossians believed that they were descended from Neoptolemos, the son of the famed classical hero Achilleus. Neoptolemos was a savage and ruthless warrior who had fought at Troia after the death of his father. According to the Molossian legend, following the war he and his followers emigrated to the shores of Epeiros.

    Epeiros was important to Hellenic religion and practice, because it was the home of the sacred shrine at Dodone. Here there was an ancient and massive oak tree that was alleged to contain Zeus’ spirit which would communicate to the oracles through the rustling of the leaves. The oracle at Dodone was the second most important in Hellenic mythology, behind only the oracle at Delphoi.

    A second Neoptolemos entered Epeirote history sometime in the 4th Century BC, and unlike the Neoptolemos of the 12th Century BC, this one was real and not a product of legend. Neoptolemos bore two children of great renown in the ancient world. His daughter, Olympias, was married off to Philippos II of Makedonia, and was the mother of the ruler of the known world: Alexandros. His son was another Alexandros, known as Alexandros Molossss, who was outshone by his cousin in Makedonia of the same name. Nevertheless, when Alexandros Molossos attained the throne in 343 BC, he had plans for expansion.

    In 333 BC, the city of Taras (Tarentum) in southern Italia, a traditional Hellenic bastion in that region of the Mediterranean, asked for assistance in a war against the Samnitai, Leukanoi, and Brettioi. In the same year that Alexandros set off to conquer the Persian Empire, an Epeirote Alexandros set off to invade Italia and the western Mediterranean. Ironically, it was under very similar circumstances that faced Pyrrhos five decades later. Alexandros Molossos was initially successful in Italia, and even entered into a pact with the Romaioi against the Samnitai. Unfortunately for him, his benefactors, the Tarantinoi, double-crossed him and he lost his favorable position. In 330 he was defeated by an allied army at Pandosia and was killed in the battle. Thus ended the first Epeirote foray into Italia.

    Back in Epeiros, Aiakides assumed the empty throne. After the death of Megas Alexandros in 323 BC, he played politics in the tumultuous neighboring kingdom of Makedonia, siding with Olympias in her struggle against one of Alexandros' successors, Kassandros. Aiakides shared Olympias’ fate, and when she was put to death in 313, he was dethroned simultaneously. His son, soon to be a great general of the ancient age, was then only two years old, and the family had to fly from Epeiros to Illyria. Epeiros was a Makedonian client state until 306, when Pyrrhos of Epeiros, only 12 years old at the time, was put back on the Epeirote throne. His early reign was filled with intrigue and interruption as he was dethroned in 301 BC while attending a wedding outside the country. At the age of 17, Pyrrhos was brought on campaign with his brother-in-law, Demetrios, a prince of Makedonia, in the Fourth War of the Diadochoi. At this point, Demetrios was fighting alongside his father, Antigonus, the then ruler of most of the former empire of Alexandros. Arrayed against him were forces under the other Diadochoi: Ptolemaios, Seleukos, and Lysimachos. The climactic battle of that war was fought at Ipsos in that same year (301), and Pyrrhos’ side was defeated. Antigonus was killed, Demetrios fled back to Hellas, and Pyrrhos himself, though he had fought well, was made a hostage of Ptolemaios I Soter in a treaty between he and Demetrios.

    Once in Aigyptos, Pyrrhos charmed the stepdaughter of Ptolemaios and made a good impression on the aging king. In 297 Ptolemaios re-established Pyrrhos as king of Epeiros. Pyrrhos then allied himself with the Lysimachid kingdom in Thraikia, and he and Lysimachos invaded Makedonia in 287, successfully deposing Demetrios and jointly ruling the kingdom. The peace between Lysimachos and Pyrrhos did not last long, however, and by 284 Pyrrhos was sent packing from Makedonia back to Epeiros. He soon began looking for another avenue of expansion and was not forced to wait long.

    His attention was turned westward in 282, just as Alexandros Molossos’ had some 51 years earlier. Once again, the Tarantinoi were having troubles with their neighbors. This time their neighbors happened to be the Romans. After sinking a Roman flotilla and declaring war in 282, the Tarantinoi called upon support from Pyrrhos. Pyrrhos, through no love of the Tarantinoi but rather a desire to become the next Alexandros, accepted the invitation. The Tarantinoi promised him many thousands of allied troops, and after a harrowing crossing from Epeiros, he arrived in Taras with an army of 26,000 men, including 20 war elephants.

    The Romaioi advanced a consular army to the vicinity of Taras much faster than Pyrrhos had anticipated. This was well before he could receive any significant reinforcement. Worrying that morale might sink if he did not confront the Romaioi, he set out to find and fight them in 280. The two armies met at Heraklea where the pitched battle was indecisive for many hours until Pyrrhos’ elephants turned the tide in favor of the Epeirotes. Having beaten a Roman army, Pyrrhos felt confident enough to march on Rome, which he did to no effect in early 279. The Romaioi instead kept two consular armies on the move throughout Italia to harass and annoy him. Unable to ignore these threats, Pyrrhos marched south and confronted the Romans again at Asklon (Asculum). The battle progressed in a fashion similar to that at Heraklea, where the infantry of both sides remained deadlocked for a day before Pyrrhos sent in his elephants and defeated the Romaioi once more. Even still, the Romaioi did not sue for peace, and Pyrrhos grew weary of this conflict.

    In the year 278, Pyrrhos faced three choices. He could either stay and fight things out with the pesky and persistent Romaioi, he could withdraw to Makedonia, where at that time a horde of Celtic invaders were wreaking havoc throughout the countryside, or he could move south and invade Sikilia at the behest of the Mamertinoi, who were currently facing a Karchedon onslaught. He chose the latter. In 277, he arrived on the shores of Sicily where he swiftly and brilliantly pushed the Karchedonioi back to the westernmost part of the island. He sacked their stronghold at Eryx, and left the remnants bottled up in Lilybaion. Unfortunately at this point he had a falling out with the Syrakousai and Mamertinoi due to his aggressive method of conscripting Sikilioi as soldiers. He also received a treaty from the Karchedonioi, but imposed harsh terms upon them, so harsh in fact that they refused to accept them. Due to popular opinion being against him and a renewed Karchedon resistance, he was forced to withdraw from Sikilia in 276.

    Back in Italia, he renewed the war he had abandoned against the Romaioi. Marching north, he fought one more great battle with them at Beneventum. This battle, as at Heraklea and Askalon, was evenly fought overall, except this time the Romaioi managed to frighten Pyrrhos’ elephants and force him to retreat. With that, Pyrrhos decided to end his Italian adventure once and for all, and withdrew to Epeiros in 275, largely broke and weary from years of campaigning, but leaving a garrison in Taras for the time being with one of his sons in control there.

    Despite this, Pyrrhos once again embarked on war in Makedonia. This time victory proved easy and he deposed the sitting king, Antigonos Gonatas, without much trouble. In 272 he was approached by the Spartan Kleonymos who beseeched him to invade Sparte and place Kleonymos on the throne. Pyrrhos agreed, but blanched when he found Sparte well, if sparsely, defended. He took up an offer to intervene in a civic dispute in Argos, but when his army arrived there under cover of night, a confusing street battle erupted. Pyrrhos was killed in the fighting. He was hit on the head by a roof tile, allegedly thrown by an old woman, which allowed him to be swiftly dispatched by an Argive soldier.

    The glory days of Epeiros died with Pyrrhos in Argos. The kingdom remained alive and the Molossian dynasty ruled until the 2nd century BC, during which they blundered into war with the Romaioi once more. This time the Romaioi were the invaders and the Epeirotes formed an alliance with other Hellenes to fight them off. The Epeirotes and many other Hellenes lost their independence when the Romaioi won the battle of Pydna in 168 BC. In 146 the former Kingdom of Epeiros was officially made a Roman province, and would be ruled by the Romaioi for the next 500 years.


    Europa Barbarorum

  6. #36
    Avatar von De_La_GreCo

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    Zitat Zitat von Sazan Beitrag anzeigen
    ich schwör dir, mir geht alexander der große, der in wahrheit klitzeklein war, am arsch vorbei.. was könnt ihr griechen euch jetzt davon kaufen?

    ja, ja,.. wie ist das in griechenland... ihr nennt das arvanitische auch "die alte sprache"... prost!
    na wenn das so ist dann lasst endlich die finger von der griechischen geschichte und alle sind zufrieden


    ihr und die ejr mazedonier seit echt die schlimmsten was geschichtsklau angeht

  7. #37
    Avatar von Lahutari

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    5.050
    Ich will ja nicht Alexanders griechische Abstammung absprechen ,aber die Sprache ist doch ein verzwickter Punkt

    Abgesehen von den Legenden ist wenig über Alexanders Kindheit bekannt. Makedonien war ein Land, das im Norden des Kulturraums des antiken Griechenlands lag. Es wurde von vielen Griechen als „barbarisch“ (unzivilisiert) angesehen, obwohl das Königsgeschlecht als griechisch anerkannt wurde. In der Antike gab es ohnehin keinen einheitlichen Staat Griechenland, sondern eine durch gemeinsame Kultur, Religion und Sprache verbundene Gemeinschaft der griechischen Klein- und Stadtstaaten. Im frühen 5. Jahrhundert v. Chr. wurden erstmals Makedonen zu den Olympischen Spielen zugelassen, nachdem König Alexander I. eine Abstammung aus dem griechischen Argos in Anspruch genommen hatte.[3] Noch heute birgt die Diskussion um die ethnische Zugehörigkeit politischen Konfliktstoff.
    Aus den verfügbaren Quellen ist ersichtlich, dass das Makedonische, von dem nur wenige Wörter überliefert sind, für die Griechen wie eine fremde Sprache klang.[4] Ob das Makedonische ein griechischer Dialekt oder eine mit dem Griechischen verwandte eigenständige Sprache war, ist immer noch umstritten.

    Kulturell und gesellschaftlich unterschieden sich die Makedonen recht deutlich von den Griechen: keine städtische Kultur; als Binnenreich kaum Kontakte zum mediterranen Kulturraum; Königtum, was in Griechenland nicht die Regel war. Für viele Griechen wird die makedonische Gesellschaft archaisch gewirkt haben.[5] Erst im 6. Jahrhundert v. Chr. verstärkte sich der griechische kulturelle Einfluss in der makedonischen Oberschicht.
    Waren Makedonen jetzt nach einiger Zeit kulturell Griechen und gingen in das griechische Volk ein oder wie?

  8. #38
    Avatar von AlbaJews

    Registriert seit
    02.06.2011
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    7.744
    Zitat Zitat von De_La_GreCo Beitrag anzeigen
    wieder falsch


    alexanders mutter war epirotin und somit griechin


    die epiroten rühmten sich damit anchfahre des achilles und neoptolemäus zu sein??waren das etwa auch illyrer??




    aber bitteschön noch ein text




    The region of Hellas known as Epeiros was first settled by Hellenic colonists in the 6th Century BC. They set up a dynasty known as the Molossians. The Molossians believed that they were descended from Neoptolemos, the son of the famed classical hero Achilleus. Neoptolemos was a savage and ruthless warrior who had fought at Troia after the death of his father. According to the Molossian legend, following the war he and his followers emigrated to the shores of Epeiros.

    Epeiros was important to Hellenic religion and practice, because it was the home of the sacred shrine at Dodone. Here there was an ancient and massive oak tree that was alleged to contain Zeus’ spirit which would communicate to the oracles through the rustling of the leaves. The oracle at Dodone was the second most important in Hellenic mythology, behind only the oracle at Delphoi.

    A second Neoptolemos entered Epeirote history sometime in the 4th Century BC, and unlike the Neoptolemos of the 12th Century BC, this one was real and not a product of legend. Neoptolemos bore two children of great renown in the ancient world. His daughter, Olympias, was married off to Philippos II of Makedonia, and was the mother of the ruler of the known world: Alexandros. His son was another Alexandros, known as Alexandros Molossss, who was outshone by his cousin in Makedonia of the same name. Nevertheless, when Alexandros Molossos attained the throne in 343 BC, he had plans for expansion.

    In 333 BC, the city of Taras (Tarentum) in southern Italia, a traditional Hellenic bastion in that region of the Mediterranean, asked for assistance in a war against the Samnitai, Leukanoi, and Brettioi. In the same year that Alexandros set off to conquer the Persian Empire, an Epeirote Alexandros set off to invade Italia and the western Mediterranean. Ironically, it was under very similar circumstances that faced Pyrrhos five decades later. Alexandros Molossos was initially successful in Italia, and even entered into a pact with the Romaioi against the Samnitai. Unfortunately for him, his benefactors, the Tarantinoi, double-crossed him and he lost his favorable position. In 330 he was defeated by an allied army at Pandosia and was killed in the battle. Thus ended the first Epeirote foray into Italia.

    Back in Epeiros, Aiakides assumed the empty throne. After the death of Megas Alexandros in 323 BC, he played politics in the tumultuous neighboring kingdom of Makedonia, siding with Olympias in her struggle against one of Alexandros' successors, Kassandros. Aiakides shared Olympias’ fate, and when she was put to death in 313, he was dethroned simultaneously. His son, soon to be a great general of the ancient age, was then only two years old, and the family had to fly from Epeiros to Illyria. Epeiros was a Makedonian client state until 306, when Pyrrhos of Epeiros, only 12 years old at the time, was put back on the Epeirote throne. His early reign was filled with intrigue and interruption as he was dethroned in 301 BC while attending a wedding outside the country. At the age of 17, Pyrrhos was brought on campaign with his brother-in-law, Demetrios, a prince of Makedonia, in the Fourth War of the Diadochoi. At this point, Demetrios was fighting alongside his father, Antigonus, the then ruler of most of the former empire of Alexandros. Arrayed against him were forces under the other Diadochoi: Ptolemaios, Seleukos, and Lysimachos. The climactic battle of that war was fought at Ipsos in that same year (301), and Pyrrhos’ side was defeated. Antigonus was killed, Demetrios fled back to Hellas, and Pyrrhos himself, though he had fought well, was made a hostage of Ptolemaios I Soter in a treaty between he and Demetrios.

    Once in Aigyptos, Pyrrhos charmed the stepdaughter of Ptolemaios and made a good impression on the aging king. In 297 Ptolemaios re-established Pyrrhos as king of Epeiros. Pyrrhos then allied himself with the Lysimachid kingdom in Thraikia, and he and Lysimachos invaded Makedonia in 287, successfully deposing Demetrios and jointly ruling the kingdom. The peace between Lysimachos and Pyrrhos did not last long, however, and by 284 Pyrrhos was sent packing from Makedonia back to Epeiros. He soon began looking for another avenue of expansion and was not forced to wait long.

    His attention was turned westward in 282, just as Alexandros Molossos’ had some 51 years earlier. Once again, the Tarantinoi were having troubles with their neighbors. This time their neighbors happened to be the Romans. After sinking a Roman flotilla and declaring war in 282, the Tarantinoi called upon support from Pyrrhos. Pyrrhos, through no love of the Tarantinoi but rather a desire to become the next Alexandros, accepted the invitation. The Tarantinoi promised him many thousands of allied troops, and after a harrowing crossing from Epeiros, he arrived in Taras with an army of 26,000 men, including 20 war elephants.

    The Romaioi advanced a consular army to the vicinity of Taras much faster than Pyrrhos had anticipated. This was well before he could receive any significant reinforcement. Worrying that morale might sink if he did not confront the Romaioi, he set out to find and fight them in 280. The two armies met at Heraklea where the pitched battle was indecisive for many hours until Pyrrhos’ elephants turned the tide in favor of the Epeirotes. Having beaten a Roman army, Pyrrhos felt confident enough to march on Rome, which he did to no effect in early 279. The Romaioi instead kept two consular armies on the move throughout Italia to harass and annoy him. Unable to ignore these threats, Pyrrhos marched south and confronted the Romans again at Asklon (Asculum). The battle progressed in a fashion similar to that at Heraklea, where the infantry of both sides remained deadlocked for a day before Pyrrhos sent in his elephants and defeated the Romaioi once more. Even still, the Romaioi did not sue for peace, and Pyrrhos grew weary of this conflict.

    In the year 278, Pyrrhos faced three choices. He could either stay and fight things out with the pesky and persistent Romaioi, he could withdraw to Makedonia, where at that time a horde of Celtic invaders were wreaking havoc throughout the countryside, or he could move south and invade Sikilia at the behest of the Mamertinoi, who were currently facing a Karchedon onslaught. He chose the latter. In 277, he arrived on the shores of Sicily where he swiftly and brilliantly pushed the Karchedonioi back to the westernmost part of the island. He sacked their stronghold at Eryx, and left the remnants bottled up in Lilybaion. Unfortunately at this point he had a falling out with the Syrakousai and Mamertinoi due to his aggressive method of conscripting Sikilioi as soldiers. He also received a treaty from the Karchedonioi, but imposed harsh terms upon them, so harsh in fact that they refused to accept them. Due to popular opinion being against him and a renewed Karchedon resistance, he was forced to withdraw from Sikilia in 276.

    Back in Italia, he renewed the war he had abandoned against the Romaioi. Marching north, he fought one more great battle with them at Beneventum. This battle, as at Heraklea and Askalon, was evenly fought overall, except this time the Romaioi managed to frighten Pyrrhos’ elephants and force him to retreat. With that, Pyrrhos decided to end his Italian adventure once and for all, and withdrew to Epeiros in 275, largely broke and weary from years of campaigning, but leaving a garrison in Taras for the time being with one of his sons in control there.

    Despite this, Pyrrhos once again embarked on war in Makedonia. This time victory proved easy and he deposed the sitting king, Antigonos Gonatas, without much trouble. In 272 he was approached by the Spartan Kleonymos who beseeched him to invade Sparte and place Kleonymos on the throne. Pyrrhos agreed, but blanched when he found Sparte well, if sparsely, defended. He took up an offer to intervene in a civic dispute in Argos, but when his army arrived there under cover of night, a confusing street battle erupted. Pyrrhos was killed in the fighting. He was hit on the head by a roof tile, allegedly thrown by an old woman, which allowed him to be swiftly dispatched by an Argive soldier.

    The glory days of Epeiros died with Pyrrhos in Argos. The kingdom remained alive and the Molossian dynasty ruled until the 2nd century BC, during which they blundered into war with the Romaioi once more. This time the Romaioi were the invaders and the Epeirotes formed an alliance with other Hellenes to fight them off. The Epeirotes and many other Hellenes lost their independence when the Romaioi won the battle of Pydna in 168 BC. In 146 the former Kingdom of Epeiros was officially made a Roman province, and would be ruled by the Romaioi for the next 500 years.


    Europa Barbarorum
    Epirus gehörte den drei grossen illyrisch stämmen den chaoniern Thesprotiern und Molossern und alle waren illyrische stämme und das mit achillis ist ein märchen

  9. #39
    Avatar von Sazan

    Registriert seit
    27.05.2009
    Beiträge
    13.046
    Zitat Zitat von hippokrates Beitrag anzeigen
    Wir haben auch hier über längere Zeit darüber diskutiert und alle Quellen gepostet.

    Gib einfach - falls es dich interessiert - in der Suchmaschine "Ashmolean Museum Oxford", "Mannheimer Ausstellung", oder "Louvre Museum" ein.



    Hippokrates
    es wurde nie bewiesen, dass er die griechische sprache beherrschte..
    genau so kann ich auf griechische städte und dörfer hinweisen, die im albanischen eine bedeutung haben...wie z.b. die stadt EMATHIA..

  10. #40
    Avatar von Paokaras

    Registriert seit
    02.09.2010
    Beiträge
    8.888
    Zitat Zitat von Sazan Beitrag anzeigen
    mir ist alexander der große scheißegal, aber was du hier schreibst, lese ich zum ersten mal.

    Hier mein unwissender freund,ich hoffe du weiss was was der Louvre ist

    Ancient and Medieval Macedonian History: Alexander the Great at the Louvre for a unique exhibition



    'Heracles to Alexander the Great' exhibition at Oxford's Ashmolean Museum | Phantis

    A major exhibition titled "Heracles to Alexander the Great: Treasures from the Royal Capital o Macedon, a Hellenic Kingdom in the Age of Democracy" opens next week at Oxford University's


    Aber was weiss schon Oxford und die Louvre Leute

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