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Wie lehrt man Geschichte auf dem Balkan?

Erstellt von @rdi, 08.06.2011, 02:15 Uhr · 75 Antworten · 4.363 Aufrufe

  1. #51
    Avatar von De_La_GreCo

    Registriert seit
    17.08.2008
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    die kanditaten toppt hier aber keiner





    ab 2.50

    ab 3.33







    omg

  2. #52
    Avatar von Pjetër Balsha

    Registriert seit
    02.05.2010
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    Zitat Zitat von De_La_GreCo Beitrag anzeigen
    das gleiche was die ejr mazedonier tun tut ihr ebenfalls

    alexander war epirote das macht ihn noch lange nicht zu einem halben illyrer


    die epiroten rühmten sich damit nachfahren des neoptolemos zu sein der wiederrum der sohn des achilles war

    oder ist achilles jetzt auch illyre gewesen?

    es stimmt das die makedonen und epiroten ind er antike nicht die vorzeige griechen waren das bestreite ich auch nicht aber zu behaupten sie wären nicht griechisch ist einfach nur dumm

    es lebten auch viele illyrer in epirus da es nachbarn waren aber es waren keine illyrer


    selbst olympias die mutter von alexander rühmte sich andauernd das ihr sohn der sohn des zeus sei


    Olympias von Epirus – Wikipedia


    der erste satz sagt schon alles


    Das molossische Königshaus von Epirus leitete seine Abstammung von dem mythischen Helden Achilles her. Mütterlicherseits beanspruchte Olympias eine Aszendenz von der schönen Helena.[3]



    war helena ebenfalls illyrerin??


    noch ein zitat ausm link

    Als Geburtsnamen der Olympias werden Polyxena, Myrtale und Stratonike angegeben



    sehr schöne illyrische namen
    dass ihr griechen auch auf alle antike bekanntheiten anspruch erheben wollt ich scheiß auf alexander den großen trotzdem war seine mutter illyrerin
    der stamm der molosser war ein hellenisierter illyrischer stamm



    Olympias von Epirus (Griechische Sprache – Wikipedia Ὀλυμπιάς; * um 375 v. Chr. in Epirus (historische Region) – Wikipedia; † 316 v. Chr. in http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pydna_%28Makedonien%29) war eine Prinzessin aus dem Stamm der Molosser (Volk) – Wikipedia.


    Molosser

    führender illyrischer Stamm in Epirus, in dessen Gebiet die Orakelstätte Dodona lag; enge Beziehungen zu Thessalien und früher Anschluss an Griechenland; Glanzzeit unter König Pyrrhos am Beginn des 3. Jahrhunderts v. Chr.
    © Wissen Media Verlag

  3. #53
    Avatar von De_La_GreCo

    Registriert seit
    17.08.2008
    Beiträge
    23.746
    Zitat Zitat von Pjetër Balsha Beitrag anzeigen
    dass ihr griechen auch auf alle antike bekanntheiten anspruch erheben wollt ich scheiß auf alexander den großen trotzdem war seine mutter illyrerin
    der stamm der molosser war ein hellenisierter illyrischer stamm



    Olympias von Epirus (Griechische Sprache – Wikipedia Ὀλυμπιάς; * um 375 v. Chr. in Epirus (historische Region) – Wikipedia; † 316 v. Chr. in Pydna (Makedonien)) war eine Prinzessin aus dem Stamm der Molosser (Volk) – Wikipedia.


    Molosser

    führender illyrischer Stamm in Epirus, in dessen Gebiet die Orakelstätte Dodona lag; enge Beziehungen zu Thessalien und früher Anschluss an Griechenland; Glanzzeit unter König Pyrrhos am Beginn des 3. Jahrhunderts v. Chr.
    © Wissen Media Verlag

    Ancient writers about greekness of Epirus



    Zeus Archon, Dodonean, Pelasgian, who dwells afar, ruling on rough wintered Dodona, surrounded by the Selloi, the interpreters of your divine will, whose feet are unwashed and sleep on the ground”.


    Homer, Iliad 16:127 (Achilles prayer)

    XI.

    “War was at the same time proclaimed against the Tarentines (who are still a people at the extremity of Italy), because they had offered violence to some Roman ambassadors. These people asked aid against the Romans of Pyrrhus, king of Epirus, who derived his origin from the family of Achilles…

    XIII.

    “…Thus the ambassador of Pyrrhus returned; and, when Pyrrhus asked him “what kind of a place he had found Rome to be,” Cineas replied, that “he had seen a country of kings, for that all there were such, as Pyrrhus alone was thought to be in Epirus and the rest of Greece.”

    Eutropius (Abridgment of Roman History) Historiae Romanae Breviarium

    “Arha Ellas apo Oricias kai arhegonos Ellas Epiros“

    “Greece starts at Oricus and the most ancient part of Greece is Epirus.”

    Claudius Ptolemy, The Geographer

    “Peleus is the forefather of the kings of Epiros”

    Pausanias, II (Corinth).

    Peleus being the son of King Aeacus (the dynasty’s name) and the father of Achilles.

    but we know of no Greek before Pyrros who fought against Rome

    Pausanias, 1.11

    “So Pyrros was the first to cross over against Rome from mainland Greece, and even so he went over only because he was called in by Tarentum”

    Pausanias, 1.12

    [6] Being apprized of Alcmaeon’s untimely end and courted by Zeus, Callirrhoe requested that the sons she had by Alcmaeon might be full grown in order to avenge their father’s murder. And being suddenly full-grown, the sons went forth to right their father’s wrong. Now Pronous and Agenor, the sons of Phegeus, carrying the necklace and robe to Delphi to dedicate them, turned in at the house of Agapenor at the same time as Amphoterus and Acarnan, the sons of Alcmaeon; and the sons of Alcmaeon killed their father’s murderers, and going to Psophis and entering the palace they slew both Phegeus and his wife. They were pursued as far as Tegea, but saved by the intervention of the Tegeans and some Argives, and the Psophidians took to flight.

    [7] Having acquainted their mother with these things, they went to Delphi and dedicated the necklace and robe according to the injunction of Achelous. Then they journeyed to Epirus, collected settlers, and colonized Acarnania..

    Apollodorus, 3.76-3.77.

    [12] After remaining in Tenedos two days at the advice of Thetis, Neoptolemus set out for the country of the Molossians by land with Helenus, and on the way Phoenix died, and Neoptolemus buried him; and having vanquished the Molossians in battle he reigned as king and begat Molossus on Andromache. And Helenus founded a city in Molossia and inhabited it, and Neoptolemus gave him his mother Deidamia to wife. And when Peleus was expelled from Phthia by the sons of Acastus and died, Neoptolemus succeeded to his father’s kingdom.”

    Apollodorus, 6.12

    “It was for this reason that Pyrrhus was defeated by the Romans also in a battle to the finish. For it was no mean or untrained army that he had, but the mightiest of those then in existence among the Greeks and one that had fought a great many wars; nor was it a small body of men that was then arrayed under him, but even three times as large as his adversary’s, nor was its general any chance leader, but rather the man whom all admit to have been the greatest of all the generals who flourish at that same period;”

    Dionysius of Halicarnnasus, Roman Antiquities, 19.11

    “Theopompus says, that there are fourteen Epirotic nations. Of these, the most celebrated are the Chaones and Molotti, because the whole of Epirus was at one time subject, first to Chaones, afterwards to Molotti. Their power was greatly strengthened by the family of their kings being descended from the Æacidæ, and because the ancient and famous oracle of Dodona was in their country. Chaones, Thesproti, and next after these Cassopæi, (who are Thesproti,) occupy the coast, a fertile tract reaching from the Ceraunian mountains to the Ambracian Gulf.”

    “The Molotti also were Epirotæ, and were subjects of Pyrrhus Neoptolemus, the son of Achilles, and of his descendants, who were Thessalians. The rest were governed by native princes. Some tribes were continually endeavouring to obtain the mastery over the others, but all were finally subdued by the Macedonians, except a few situated above the Ionian Gulf.”

    Strabo, 7.7.1

    “Pyrrhus, the king of Epirus, had a particularly high opinion of his powers because he was deemed by foreign nations a match for the Romans; and he believed that it would be opportune to assist the fugitives who had taken refuge with him, especially as they were Greeks, and at the same time so forestall the Romans with some plausible excuse before he should suffer injury at their hands. For so careful was he about his good reputation that though he had long had his eye on Sicily and had been considering how he could overthrow the power of the Romans, he shrank from taking the initiative in hostilities against them, when no wrong had been done him.”

    Cassius Dio, Book 9.4

    19. When Harrybas, king of the Molossians, was attacked in war by Bardylis, the Illyrian, who commanded a considerably larger army, he dispatched the non-combatant portion of his subjects to the neighbouring district of Aetolia, and spread the report that he was yielding up his towns and possessions to the Aetolians. He himself, with those who could bear arms, placed ambuscades here and there on the mountains and in other inaccessible places. The Illyrians, fearful lest the possessions of the Molossians should be seized by the Aetolians, began to race along in disorder, in their eagerness for plunder. As soon as they became scattered, Harrybas, emerging from his concealment and taking them unawares, routed them and put them to flight.

    Frontinus, Strategemata, 13

    “Alexander, the Epirote, when waging war against the Illyrians, first placed a force in ambush, and then dressed up some of his own men in Illyrian garb, ordering them to lay waste his own, that is to say, Epirote territory. When the Illyrians saw that this was being done, they themselves began to pillage right and left — the more confidently since they thought that those who led the way were scouts. But when they had been designedly brought by the latter into a disadvantageous position, they were routed and killed.”

    Frontinus, Strategemata, On Ambushes, 10

    Ancient writers about Epirus « History of Epirus




    so und wa ssagen die mdoernen historiker über epirus??


    Speakers of these various Greek dialects settled different parts of Greece at different times during the Middle Bronze Age, with one group, the “northwest” Greeks, developing their own dialect and peopling central Epirus. This was the origin of the Molossian or Epirotic tribes.”

    E.N.Borza “In the shadow of Olympus; The emergence of Macedon” (revised edition, 1992), page 62

    “We have seen that the “Makedones” or “highlanders” of mountainous western Macedonia may have been derived from northwest Greek stock. That is, northwest Greece provided a pool of Indo-European speakers of proto-Greek from which emerged the tribes who were later known by different names as they established their regional identities in separate parts of the country. Thus the Macedonians may have been related to those peoples who at an earlier time migrated south to become the historical Dorians, and to other Pindus tribes who were the ancestors of the Epirotes or Molossians. If it were known that Macedonian was a proper dialect of Greek, like the dialects spoken by Dorians and Molossians, we would be on much firmer ground in this hypothesis.”

    E.N.Borza “In the shadow of Olympus; The emergence of Macedon” (revised edition, 1992), page 78

    “When Amyntas became king of the Macedonians sometime during the latter third of the sixth century, he controlled a territory that included the central Macedonian plain and its peripheral foothills, the Pierian coastal plain beneath Mt. Olympus, and perhaps the fertile, mountain-encircled plain of Almopia. To the south lay the Greeks of Thessaly. The western mountains were peopled by the Molossians (the western Greeks of Epirus), tribes of non-Argead Macedonians, and other populations.”

    E.N.Borza “In the shadow of Olympus; The emergence of Macedon” (revised edition, 1992), page 98

    “As subjects of the king the Upper Macedonians were henceforth on the same footing as the original Macedonians, in that they could qualify for service in the King’s Forces and thereby obtain the elite citizenship. At one bound the territory, the population and wealth of the kingdom were doubled. Moreover since the great majority of the new subjects were speakers of the West Greek dialect, the enlarged army was Greek-speaking throughout.”

    NGL Hammond, “Philip of Macedon”, Gerald Duckword & Ltd, London,
    1994

    “Certainly the Thracians and the Illyrians were non-Greek speakers, but in the northwest, the peoples of Molossis {Epirot province}, Orestis and Lynkestis spoke West Greek. It is also accepted that the Macedonians spoke a dialect of Greek and although they absorbed other groups into their territory, they were essentially Greeks.”

    Robert Morkot, “The Penguin Historical Atlas of Ancient Greece”,
    Penguin Publ., 1996

    “Still, Olympias, a Greek from Epirus married to a king of Macedon”

    Paul Catledge “The Greeks: Crucible of Civilization 2000″.Chapter 14, page 213

    “Olympias, it seems, though Greek by birth…”

    Paul Catledge “The Greeks: Crucible of Civilization 2000″. Chapter 14, page 216

    The Molossians were the strongest and, decisive for Macedonia, most easterly of the three most important Epeirot tribes, which, like Macedonia but unlike the Thesprotians and the Chaonians, still retained their monarchy. They were Greeks, spoke a similar dialect to that of Macedonia, suffered just as much from the depredations of the Illyrians and were in principle the natural partners of the Macedonian king who wished to tackle the Illyrian problem at its roots.”

    Malcolm Errington, “A History of Macedonia”, California University Press,
    1990.

    The West Greek dialect group denotes the dialects spoken in: (i) the northwest Greek regions of Epeiros, Akarnania, Pthiotid Akhaia….

    Johnathan M. Hall, “Ethnic Identity in Greek Antiquity”, Cambridge University Press, 1997

    Alexander was King Philip’s eldest legitimate child. His mother, Olympias,came from the ruling clan of the northwestern Greek region of Epirus.


    David Sacks, “A Dictionary of the Ancient Greek World”, Oxford, 1995

    Epirus was a land of milk and animal products…The social unit was a small tribe, consisting of several nomadic or semi-nomadic groups, and these tribes, of which more than seventy names are known, coalesced into large tribal coalitions, three in number: Thesprotians, Molossians and Chaonians…We know from the discovery of inscriptions that these tribes were speaking the Greek language (in a West-Greek dialect).

    NGL Hammond, “Philip of Macedon”, Duckworth, London, 1994

    The molossians were the most powerfull people of Epirus, whose kings had extended their dominion over the whole country. They traced their descent back to Pyrrhus, son of Acchilles..


    the Satyres by Juvenal Page 225

    That the molossians, who were immediately adjacent to the Dodonaeans in the time of Hecataeus but engulfed them soon afterwards, spoke Illyrian or another barbaric tongue was nowhere suggested, although Aeschylus and Pindar wrote of Molossian lands. That they in fact spoke greek was implied by Herodotus’ inclusion of Molossi among the greek colonists of Asia minor, but became demonstranable only when D. Evangelides published two long inscriptions of the Molossian State, set up p. 369 B.C at Dodona, in Greek and with Greek names, Greek patronymies and Greek tribal names such as Celaethi, Omphales, Tripolitae, Triphylae, etc. As the Molossian cluster of tribes in the time of Hecataeus included the Orestae, Pelagones, Lyncestae, Tymphaei and Elimeotae,as we have argued above, we may be confindent that they too were Greek-speaking;

    Inscriptional evidence of the Chaones is lacking until the Hellinistic period; but Ps-Scylax, describing the situation of c. 380-360 put the Southern limit of the Illyrians just north of the Chaones, which indicates that the Chaones did not speak Illyrian, and the acceptance of the Chaones into the Epirote alliance in the 330s suggest strongly that they were Greek-speaking

    “The Cambridge Ancient History – The Expansion of the Greek World, Eighth to Sixth Centuries B.C., Part 3: Volume 3″ by P Mack Crew Page 284

    however, in central Epirus the only fortified places were in the plain of Ioannina, the centre of the Molossian state. Thus the North-west Greek-speaking tribes were at a half-way stage economically and politically, retaining the vigour of a tribal society and reaching out in a typically Greek manner towards a larger political organization.

    “The Cambridge Ancient History: Volume 6, the Fourth Century BC” by D M Lewis, Martin Ostwald, Simon Hornblower, John Boardman

    In 322 B.C when Antipater banished banished the anti-Macedonian leaders of the Greek states to live ‘beyond the Ceraunian Mountains’ (plut. Phoc. 29.3) he regarded Epirus as an integral part of the Greek-speaking mainland.

    Page 443

    The chaones as we will see were a group of Greek-speaking tribes, and the Dexari, or as they were called later the Dassarete, were the most northernly member of the group.

    Page 423

    Molossi (Μολοσσοί), a people in Epirus, who inhabited a narrow slip of country, called after them Molossia (Μολοσσία) or Molossis, which extended from the Aous, along the western bank of the Arachthus, as far as the Ambracian Gulf. The Molossi were Greek people, who claimed descent from Molossus, the son of Pyrrhus (Neoptolemus) and Andromache, and are said to have emigrated from Thessaly into Epirus, under the guidance of Pyrrhus himself. In their new abodes they intermingled with the original inhabitants of the land and with the neighbouring illyrian tribes of which they were regarded by the other Greeks as half barbarians. They were, however, by far the most powerful people in Epirus, and their kings gradually extended their dominion over the whole of the country. The first of their kings, who took the title of King of Epirus, was Alexander, who perished in Italy B.C. 326. The ancient capital of the Molossi was Pasaron,but Ambracia afterward became their chief town, and the residence of their kings. The Molossian hounds were celebrated in antiquity, and were much prized for hunting.

    A New Classical Dictionary of Greek and Roman Biography, Mythology and Geography” by William Smith

    That they [Dorians] were related to the North-West Dialects (of Phocis, Locris, Aetolia, Acarnania and Epirus) was not perceived clearly by the ancients

    History of the Language Sciences: I. Approaches to Gender II. Manifestations
    By Sylvain Auroux, page 439

    the western greek people (with affinities to the Epirotic tribes) in Orestis, Lyncus, and parts of Pelagonia;

    “In the shadow of Olympus..” By Eugene Borza, page 74




    “As subjects of the king the Upper Macedonians were henceforth on the same footing as the original Macedonians, in that they could qualify for service in the King’s Forces and thereby obtain the elite citizenship. At one bound the territory, the population and wealth of the kingdom were doubled. Moreover since the great majority of the new subjects were speakers of the West Greek dialect, the enlarged army was Greek-speaking throughout.”
    “Certainly the Thracians and the Illyrians were non-Greek speakers, but in the northwest, the peoples of Molossis {Epirot province}, Orestis and Lynkestis spoke West Greek. It is also accepted that the Macedonians spoke a dialect of Greek and although they absorbed other groups into their territory, they were essentially Greeks.”
    Robert Morkot, “The Penguin Historical Atlas of Ancient Greece”,
    Penguin Publ., 1996
    “Still, Olympias, a Greek from Epirus married to a king of Macedon”
    Paul Catledge “The Greeks: Crucible of Civilization 2000″, Chapter 14, page 213
    “Olympias, it seems, though Greek by birth…”
    Paul Catledge “The Greeks: Crucible of Civilization 2000″, Chapter 14, page 216
    EPIRUS (“Hpeiros”, Mainland)North-west area of Greece, from Acroceraunian point to Nicopolis, with harbours at Buthrotum and Glycys Limen (at Acheron’s mouth); bordered on south by gulf of Ambracia, and on east by Pindus range with pass via Metsovo to Thessaly.Three limestone ranges parallel to the coast and the Pindus range enclose narrow valleys and plateaux with good pasture and extensive woods; alluvial plains were formed near Buthrotum, Glycys Limen, and Ambracia.Epirus had a humid climate and cold winters. In terrain and in history it resembled Upper Macedonia. Known in the ‘Iliad’ only for the oracle of Dodona, and to Herodotus for the oracle of the dead at Ephyra, Epirus received Hellenic influence from the Elean colonies in Cassopaea and the Corinthian colonies at Ambracia and Corcyra, and the oracle of Dodona drew pilgrims from northern and central
    Greece especially.



    Theopompus knew fourteen Epirote tribes, speakers of a strong west-Greek dialect, of which the Chaones held the plain of Buthrotum, the Thesproti the plain of Acheron, and the Molossi the plain of Dodona, which forms the highland centre of Epirus with an outlet southwards to Ambracia.
    A strong Molossian state, which included some Thesprotian tribes, existed in the reign of Neoptolemos c.370-368 (“Arx.Ef”.1956, 1ff). The unification of Epirus in a symmachy led by the Molossian king was finally achieved by Alexander, brother-in-law of Philip II of Macedon. His conquests in southern Italy and his alliance with Rome showed the potentialities of the Epirote Confederacy, but he was killed in 330 BC.

    Dynastic troubles weakened the Molossian state, until Pyrrhus removed his fellow king and embarked on his adventurous career.he most lasting of his achievements were the conquest of southern Illyria, the development of Ambracia as his capital, and the building of fortifications and theaters, especially the large one at Dodona.

    His successors suffered from wars with Aetolia, Macedon, and Illyria, until in c.232 BC the Molossian monarchy fell.

    An Epirote League with a federal citizenship was then created, and the meetings of its council were held probably by rotation at Dodona or Passaron in Molossis, at Gitana in Thesprotis, and at Phoenice in Chaonia.It was soon involved in the wars between Rome and Macedon, and it split apart when the Molossian state alone supported Macedon and was sackedby the Romans in 167 BC, when 150,000 captives were deported. Central Epirus never recovered; but northern Epirus prospered during the late republic, and Augustus celebrated his victory at Actium by founding a Roman colony at Nicopolis. Under the empire a coastal road and a road through the interior were built from north to south, and Buthrotum was a Roman colony.Ancient remains testify to the great prosperity of Epirus in Hellenistic times

    N.G.L.Hammond, “Oxford Classical Dictionary,” 3rd ed. (1996), pp.546,547

    The Molossians were the strongest and, decisive for Macedonia, most easterly of the three most important Epeirot tribes, which, like Macedonia but unlike the Thesprotians and the Chaonians, still retained their monarchy. They were Greeks, spoke a similar dialect to that of Macedonia, suffered just as much from the depredations of the Illyrians and were in principle the natural partners of the Macedonian king who wished to tackle the Illyrian problem at its roots.”

    Malcolm Errington, “A History of Macedonia”, California University Press, 1990.

    The West Greek dialect group denotes the dialects spoken in: (i) the
    northwest Greek regions of Epeiros, Akarnania, Pthiotid Akhaia….

    Johnathan M. Hall, “Ethnic Identity in Greek Antiquity”, Cambridge
    University Press, 1997

    Quote:
    Alexander was King Philip’s eldest legitimate child. His mother, Olympias,came from the ruling clan of the northwestern Greek region of Epirus.
    David Sacks, “A Dictionary of the Ancient Greek World”, Oxford, 1995

    Quote:
    Epirus was a land of milk and animal products…The social unit was a small tribe, consisting of several nomadic or semi-nomadic groups, and these
    tribes, of which more than seventy names are known, coalesced into large
    tribal coalitions, three in number: Thesprotians, Molossians and Chaonians…We know from the discovery of inscriptions that these tribes
    were speaking the Greek language (in a West-Greek dialect).
    NGL Hammond, “Philip of Macedon”, Duckworth, London, 1994

    Quote:
    The molossians were the most powerfull people of Epirus, whose kings had extended their dominion over the whole country. They traced their descent back to Pyrrhus, son of Acchilles..
    the Satyres by Juvenal, Page 225

    —————————————————-

    Quote:
    That the molossians, who were immediately adjacent to the Dodonaeans in the time of Hecataeus but engulfed them soon afterwards, spoke Illyrian or another barbaric tongue was nowhere suggested, although Aeschylus and Pindar wrote of Molossian lands. That they in fact spoke greek was implied by Herodotus’ inclusion of Molossi among the greek colonists of Asia minor, but became demonstranable only when D. Evangelides published two long inscriptions of the Molossian State, set up p. 369 B.C at Dodona, in Greek and with Greek names, Greek patronymies and Greek tribal names such as Celaethi, Omphales, Tripolitae, Triphylae, etc. As the Molossian cluster of tribes in the time of Hecataeus included the Orestae, Pelagones, Lyncestae, Tymphaei and Elimeotae,as we have argued above, we may be confindent that they too were Greek-speaking;
    “The Cambridge Ancient History – The Expansion of the Greek World, Eighth to Sixth Centuries B.C., Part 3: Volume 3″ by P Mack Crew, Page 284
    Quote:
    Inscriptional evidence of the Chaones is lacking until the Hellinistic period; but Ps-Scylax, describing the situation of c. 380-360 put the Southern limit of the Illyrians just north of the Chaones, which indicates that the Chaones did not speak Illyrian, and the acceptance of the Chaones into the Epirote alliance in the 330s suggest strongly that they were Greek-speaking

    “The Cambridge Ancient History: Volume 6, the Fourth Century BC” by D M Lewis, Martin Ostwald, Simon Hornblower, John Boardman
    Quote:
    however, in central Epirus the only fortified places were in the plain of Ioannina, the centre of the Molossian state. Thus the North-west Greek-speaking tribes were at a half-way stage economically and politically, retaining the vigour of a tribal society and reaching out in a typically Greek manner towards a larger political organization.
    Quote:
    In 322 B.C when Antipater banished banished the anti-Macedonian leaders of the Greek states to live ‘beyond the Ceraunian Mountains’ (plut. Phoc. 29.3) he regarded Epirus as an integral part of the Greek-speaking mainland.
    Page 443

    Quote:
    The chaones as we will see were a group of Greek-speaking tribes, and the Dexari, or as they were called later the Dassarete, were the most northernly member of the group.
    Page 423

    Molossi (Μολοσσοί), a people in Epirus, who inhabited a narrow slip of country, called after them Molossia (Μολοσσία) or Molossis, which extended from the Aous, along the western bank of the Arachthus, as far as the Ambracian Gulf. The Molossi were Greek people, who claimed descent from Molossus, the son of Pyrrhus (Neoptolemus) and Andromache, and are said to have emigrated from Thessaly into Epirus, under the guidance of Pyrrhus himself. In their new abodes they intermingled with the original inhabitants of the land and with the neighbouring illyrian tribes of which they were regarded by the other Greeks as half barbarians. They were, however, by far the most powerful people in Epirus, and their kings gradually extended their dominion over the whole of the country. The first of their kings, who took the title of King of Epirus, was Alexander, who perished in Italy B.C. 326. The ancient capital of the Molossi was Pasaron,but Ambracia afterward became their chief town, and the residence of their kings. The Molossian hounds were celebrated in antiquity, and were much prized for hunting.
    A New Classical Dictionary of Greek and Roman Biography, Mythology and Geography” by William Smith

    That they [Dorians] were related to the North-West Dialects (of Phocis, Locris, Aetolia, Acarnania and Epirus) was not perceived clearly by the ancients

    History of the Language Sciences: I. Approaches to Gender II. Manifestations By Sylvain Auroux, page 439



    Pyrrhus, king of Epirus, was himself simply a military adventurer. He was none the less a soldier of fortune that he traced back his pedigree to Aeacus and Achilles





    Quote:
    he was the first Greek that met the Romans in battle. With him began those direct relations between Rome and Hellas, on which the whole subsequent development of ancient, and an essential part of modern, civilization are based.
    Quote:


    this struggle between Rome and Hellenism was first fought out in the battles between Pyrrhus and the Roman generals;

    Quote:
    But while the Greeks were beaten in the battlefield as well as in the senate-hall, their superiority was none the less decided on every other field of rivalry than that of politics; and these very struggles already betokened that the victory of Rome over the Hellenes would be different from her victories over Gauls and Phoenicians, and that the charm of Aphrodite only begins to work when the lance is broken and the helmet and shield are laid aside.

    Theodor Mommsen History of Rome, From the Abolition of the Monarchy in Rome to the Union of Italy, The Historical Position Of Pyrrhus

    That the molossians, who were immediately adjacent to the Dodonaeans in the time of Hecataeus but engulfed them soon afterwards, spoke Illyrian or another barbaric tongue was NOWHERE suggested, although Aeschylus and Pindar wrote of Molossian lands. That they in fact spoke greek was implied by Herodotus’ inclusion of Molossi among the greek colonists of Asia minor, but became demonstranable only when D. Evangelides published two long inscriptions of the Molossian State, set up p. 369 B.C at Dodona, in Greek and with Greek names, Greek patronymies and Greek tribal names such as Celaethi, Omphales, Tripolitae, Triphylae, etc. As the Molossian cluster of tribes in the time of Hecataeus included the Orestae, Pelagones, Lyncestae, Tymphaei and Elimeotae,as we have argued above, we may be confindent that they too were Greek-speaking;Inscriptional evidence of the Chaones is lacking until the Hellinistic period; but Ps-Scylax, describing the situation of c. 380-360 put the Southern limit of the Illyrians just north of the Chaones, which indicates that the Chaones did not speak Illyrian, and the acceptance of the Chaones into the Epirote alliance in the 330s suggest strongly that they were Greek-speaking.

    “The Cambridge Ancient History – The Expansion of the Greek World, Eighth to Sixth Centuries B.C., Part 3: Volume 3″ by P Mack Crew ,page 284.

    The Epirotes, who may fairly be considered as Greeks by blood, long maintained a rugged independence under native chiefs, who were little more than leaders in war.

    A Manual of Greek Antiquities
    Book by Percy Gardner, Frank Byron Jevons; Charles Scribner’s Sons, 1895, page 8

    After the Mycenaean civilization declined, Epirus was the launching area of the Dorian invasions (1100–1000 BC) of Greece. The region’s original inhabitants were driven southward by the Dorians, and out of the ensuing migrations three main clusters of Greek-speaking tribes emerged in Epirus: the Thesproti of southwestern Epirus, the Molossi of central Epirus, and the Chaones of northwestern Epirus. They lived in clusters of small villages, in contrast to most other Greeks, who lived in or around city-states.In the 5th century Epirus was still on the periphery of the Greek world. To the 5th-century historian Thucydides, the Epirotes were “barbarians.” The only Epirotes regarded as Greek were the Aeacidae, who were members of the Molossian royal house and claimed descent from Achilles. From about 370 BC on, the Aeacidae were able to expand the Molossian state by incorporating tribes from the rival groups in Epirus. The Aeacidae’s efforts gained impetus from the marriage of Philip II of Macedon to their princess, Olympias. In 334, while Alexander the Great, son of Philip and Olympias, crossed into Asia, his uncle, the Molossian ruler Alexander, attacked southern Italy, where he was eventually checked by Rome and killed in battle in about 331. Upon Alexander the Molossian’s death, the Epirote tribes formed a coalition on an equal basis but with the Molossian king in command of their military forces. The greatest Molossian king of this coalition was Pyrrhus (319–272); he and his son Alexander II ruled as far south as Acarnania and to central Albania in the north. Pyrrhus’ military adventures overstrained his state’s military resources, but they also brought great prosperity to Epirus. He built a magnificent stone theatre at Dodona and a new suburb at Ambracia (now Árta), which he made his capital.

    [Encyclopedia Britannica, edition 2007, abstract from Epirus]

    Whereas this did not happen with the Persians or the Egyptians, it did wit the Molossians (who were probably ethnically/linguistically Greek-see bellow). In other words what may have begun as poetic or erudite inventions caught on. For the Molossians, for example, Greek heroic origins ceased to be merely a matter for Greek-centered erudite Ethnography of the Other” but were incorporated and adopted y that other.

    “The Return of Odysseus: Colonization and ethnicity” by Irad Malkin

    but what language did the Epirotes speak?The answer to this question became apparent, when D. Evangelidis published two inscriptions from Dodona. They showed beyond dispute that the tribes which made up the Molossian state not only recorded decisions in Greek language and with Greek technical terms but also had Greek personal names and ethnic forms in the period 370-368 B.C. Since the personal names of men who were adult then had been given to them c. 420 B.C., the conclusion was unavoidable that these tribes were speaking Greek at the very time when Thucydides was labelling them as barbaroi. This ceases to be a paradox, if one realizes that the contrast in the term barbaros was not linguistic but cultural.

    ………………………………………………………………………………………………

    The dialect of the Greek language which these tribal groups spoke was not the Doric of Corinth and her colonies but a form of west Greek, as is becoming clear from the dececipherment of questions asked by local enquirers, which have been preserved on lead strips at Dodona. Their dialect may well have been retarded and therefore not easy for southern Greeks to understand, just as the dialect of the Makedones proper was unfamiliar to the Greeks on their coast.

    [Epirus :4000 years of Greek history and civilization, the entry of Epirus into the Greek world, page 60 ]

    Epirus, though mostly held by people of Grecian speech and lineage, had an intermixture of those called barbarians; Illyrians, and perhaps others. Herodotus however, among earliest, and Plutarch, among late ancient historians, clearly reckon the Molossians a Grecian people. Some expressions of Thucydides and Strabo may perhaps be construed either way. But, as it has been formerly observed, Herodotus, Thucydides, and Strabo concur in showing that all Greece was of mixed population; and how the distinction of Greek and barbarian, unknown to Homer, arose, and what at last it was, always remained uncertain. Strabo however, clearly acknowledging the Macedonian for a Greek nation, assures us that the general language of the Epirots was the Macedonian dialect of the Greek; that where another language, probably the Illyric, was in use, the people commonly spoke both, and that, in habits and manners, most of the Epirots hardly differed from the Macedonians.
    The governments of the Epirot states were, some Republican with annual chief magistrates, as at Athens, Thebes, and Rome; others monarchal. That of Molossis, from earliest tradition, was monarchal; and whether the people may have been more or less allowed the always questionable dignity of pure Grecian blood, yet the claim of the royal family to the oldest and noblest Grecian origin, resting on tradition, but asserted by Straho and Plutarch, with Aristotle’s assent implied, is not found anywhere controverted. They reckoned themselves direct descendants ofNeoptolemus Pyrrhus, son of Achilles; who, it was said, ‘” after the Trojan war, migrating from Thessaly, be¬came king of Molossis, Whatever credit may be due to this lofty pretension, that the Molossian sceptre remained in one Greek family, from times beyond certain history till after Aristotle’s age, appears satisfactorily testified.
    By advantage of situation and constitution, exempt from great troubles, Molossis, had it had historians, probably afforded little for general interest. Nevertheless we learn from the father of Grecian history that, some generations before his time, it was esteemed respectable among Grecian states. The tale wherein this appears, like many of that writer, somewhat of a romantic cast, nevertheless may have been true in all its parts; and for the information it affords of an important change of manners and policy among the Greeks, and of the florishing condition of several republics about the age of the Athenian legislator Solon, some destroyed before the historian wrote, others little heard of since, while Molossis apparently remained unshaken, it maybe reckoned of considerable historical value.
    Clisthenes, tyrant of Sicyon, under whose rule that little state was eminent among those of Peloponnesus,’ desiring, the historian says, to marry his daughter to a man of the greatest consideration and highest worth of all Greece, opened his house for any who, from personal dignity and the eminence of their countries, might have pretensions; that so he might have oppor¬tunity to estimate their merits. Thirteen guests, rivals for his favor, are thus described. There came from the Greek colonies in Italy, then florishing extraordinarily, Smindyrides of Sybaris and Damas of Siris. The former was remarked for going beyond all of his time in the luxury for which Sybaris was renowned. Damas was son of that Samyris who was distinguished by the epithet of the Wise. Am-phimnestus came from Epidamnus, on the coast of the Ionian gulf. Males was of jjEtolia, brother of Titormus, esteemed the strongest man in Greece, but who had withdrawn from the society of men to reside in the farthest part of yEtolia.3 Lcocedes was son of Phi don, tyrant of Argos; that Phidon, says the historian, who established uniformity of weights and measures throughout Peloponnesus, and, together with his power, (so far, it may seem, bene¬ficially exerted,) was remarked for an arrogance un¬equalled among the Greeks; for, depriving the Eleans of the presidency of the Olympian festival, he assumed it himself. Two came from Arcadia, Amiantus of Trapezus, and Laphanes of Pafos. The father of the latter, Euphorion, was celebrated for his extensive. hospitality, and had the extraordinary fame of having entertained the gods Castor and Pollux. Lysanias came from Eretria in Eubcea, then greatly florishing; Onomastus from Elea: Megacles and Hippoclides were of Athens; the latter esteemed the richest Athenian of his time, and the handsomest: Diac-tondes was of Cranon and Scopada? in Thessaly; Alcon was of Molossis. This simple description of Alcon, combined with what has preceded, enough marks that the Molossians were esteemed a Grecian people, and Molossis then considerable among the Grecian states. One of the Athenians, Megacles, was the successful suitor.

    “The history of Greece”, by lord Redesdale By William Mitford






    Quote:
    He [Pyrrhus] has been compared to Alexander of Macedonia; and certainly the idea of founding a Hellenic empire of the west–which would have had as its core Epirus, Magna Graecia, and Sicily, would have commanded both the Italian seas, and would have reduced Rome and Carthage to the rank of barbarian peoples bordering on the Hellenistic state-system,like the Celts and the Indians–was analogous in greatness and boldness to the idea which led the Macedonian king over the Hellespont.
    NGL Hammond, “Philip of Macedon”, Gerald Duckword & Ltd, London, 1994

    “The particulars of these with Pyrrhus of the Greek kingdom of Epirus“

    The cavalry of the Roman republic: cavalry combat and elite reputations in the Middle and Late Republic. New York: Routledge. pp. 32

    “At Asculum the Roman cavalry matched Pyrrhus’ Greek riders.”

    “The art of war in the Western world” by Jones, Archer (2001), Urbana: University of Illinois Press. p. 32

    “the Greek adventurer king Pyrrhus“

    “Roma: the novel of ancient Rome”, Saylor, Steven (2007), New York: St. Martin’s Press. pp. 332

    “of Italy by the Greek king Pyrrhus, when Roman affairs are directly involved with those of mainland Greece, in the person of a descendant of Achilles”


    “…before Pyrrhus no contact with Greece after Pyrrhus Rome and Greece in tandem“





    viel spass beim lesen





    aber ich machs dir einfach


    zeig mir eine antike quelle wo behauptet wird das die epiroten illyrer waren und auch illyrisch sprachen

  4. #54
    Avatar von Pjetër Balsha

    Registriert seit
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    6.287
    sorry das ist zuviel text

    nicht nur die molosser auch andere illyrische stämme wurden hellenisiert das heißt dass sie später griechisch sprachen aber trotzdem eine illyrische herkunft hatten

    Illustriertes Lexikon des Altertums: Seite 146
    ****************************
    Epirus
    --------
    „Festland“ nordwestlich von Griechenland. Im Süden grenzt es an den Golf von Ambrakia, im Osten an Thessalien, und im Norden reicht es bis zum Akrokeraunia-Gebirge. Epirus ist gebirgig, seine bekanntesten Flüsse sind der Aoos, Arachthos, der Acheloos und der Acheron. An den Grenzen wurden griechische Apoikiai (zum Beispiel Ambrakia und Korkyra) gegründet, und hier war das berühmte Orakelheiligtum von Dodona. Die hauptsächlich illyrische Bevölkerunng hielt bis ins 4. Jh. v.Chr. an ihrer Stammeseinteilung fest; die wichtigsten Stämme waren die Thesproten, die Molosser und die. Chaonen Der Molosser-König Alexander I. (Schwager des Philipp II.) vereinte die Epirus-Stämme. Im ersten Viertel des 3. Jh. v. Chr. erreichte das Königreich Epirus unter Pyrrhos seine größte Macht. 233 v. Chr. wurde es gestürzt und schloß sich als Bund von Epirus an Makedonien an. Nach dem Sturz des Perseus litt es unter den Römern, als angeblich 150.000 Menschen versklavt wurden (167 v. Chr.). Später wurde Epirus Teil der römischen Provinz Achaea.
    epeiros

  5. #55
    Avatar von @rdi

    Registriert seit
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    4.756
    Zitat Zitat von Domoljub Beitrag anzeigen
    Du dämliches Opfer kannst du dir um diese scheiß Danke etwas kaufen??
    kann ich , es gibt mir das gefühl bestätigt zu werden und nicht nur müll geschrieben zu haben wie du

  6. #56
    Avatar von Domoljub

    Registriert seit
    27.08.2008
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    Zitat Zitat von Ardian Beitrag anzeigen
    kann ich , es gibt mir das gefühl bestätigt zu werden und nicht nur müll geschrieben zu haben wie du
    Achso ja sehr Qualitative Beiträge schreibst du wenn du z.B. irgendwo inshallah hinschreibst und dafür 5 Danke kassierst....ein sehr qualitativer Beitrag, genauso wie dein Thread Albanisch muslimische Front und deine drei Verwarnungen. Wenn man deine Beiträge auf einem Bullshitometer von 1-10 beurteilen würde, wären die meisten von 8-10 eingereiht.

  7. #57

    Registriert seit
    05.06.2011
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    245
    die malosser waren ein illyrischer stamm
    wie kann man nur so dumm sein und behaupten sie wären hellenisch gewesen was kommt als nächstes
    die arvaniten sind eigentlich auch griechen oder was ?!

  8. #58
    Avatar von @rdi

    Registriert seit
    05.10.2010
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    Zitat Zitat von Domoljub Beitrag anzeigen
    Achso ja sehr Qualitative Beiträge schreibst du wenn du z.B. irgendwo inshallah hinschreibst und dafür 5 Danke kassierst....ein sehr qualitativer Beitrag, genauso wie dein Thread Albanisch muslimische Front und deine drei Verwarnungen. Wenn man deine Beiträge auf einem Bullshitometer von 1-10 beurteilen würde, wären die meisten von 8-10 eingereiht.

    deine meinung kleiner!!

    hast was gegen muslime?

  9. #59
    Avatar von Domoljub

    Registriert seit
    27.08.2008
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    4.883
    Zitat Zitat von Ardian Beitrag anzeigen
    deine meinung kleiner!!

    hast was gegen muslime?
    Gegen so radikalen shit wie dich, auf jeden Fall.

  10. #60
    Avatar von kollegah

    Registriert seit
    19.10.2009
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    766
    Zitat Zitat von Sandzaklija Beitrag anzeigen
    haha dieses warzenschwein meint wirklich
    das in sandzak und im kosovo merheitlich serben leben


    Was wir sicher wissen, dass ein Grossteil der "Republik" Sandzak in Serbien liegt..und in MNE mehrheitlich von orthodoxen bewohnt ist

    Viele Albaner denken auch..der ganze Balkan sind Illyrer..und Atatürk sei auch Albaner..nicht nur Serben erzählen ihre Interessen..dass machen alle

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