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turanische musik und kultur

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    Turkic peoples

    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The countries and autonomous regions where a Turkic language has official status and/or is spoken by a majority.
    Total population
    Approx. 150-200 million[1][2]
    Regions with significant populations
    Turkey 55,000,000[3]
    Uzbekistan 26,000,000[4]
    Iran 14,000,000-15,000,000[5]
    Russia 12,009,969[6]
    Kazakhstan 12,000,000[7]
    China 11,647,000[8]
    Azerbaijan 9,047,000[9]
    European Union 5,876,318
    Turkmenistan 4,500,000[10]
    Kyrgyzstan 4,500,000[11]
    Afghanistan 3,500,000[12]
    Iraq 1,500,000[13]
    Tajikistan 1,200,000[14]
    United States 1,000,000+[15]
    Pakistan 500,000[16]
    Northern Cyprus 298,862[17]
    Australia 293,500
    Georgia 284,761[18]
    Ukraine 275,300[19]
    Saudi Arabia 224,460
    Syria 100,000-200,000[20]
    Moldova 158,300[21]
    Mongolia 106,955[22]
    Macedonia 77,959[23]
    Turkic languages
    (Sunni · Alevi · Twelver Shia · Ja'fari)
    (Orthodox Christianity) · Mani
    (Djudios Turkos · Sabbataists · Karaites)
    (Agnosticism · Atheism)

    Animism, Tengrism, Shamanism
    The Turkic peoples are a collection of ethnic groups that live in northern, eastern, central, and western Asia, northwestern China, and parts of eastern Europe. They speak languages belonging to the Turkic language family.[24] They share, to varying degrees, certain cultural traits and historical backgrounds. The term Turkicrepresents a broad ethno-linguistic group of peoples including existing societies such as the Turkish people, Azerbaijanis,Chuvashes, Kazakhs, Tatars, Kyrgyz, Turkmens, Uyghurs,Uzbeks, Bashkirs, Qashqai, Gagauz, Yakuts, Crimean Karaites,Krymchaks, Karakalpaks, Karachays, Balkars, Nogais and as well as past civilizations such as Tiele (and Dingling), Avars, Göktürks,Bulgars, Kumans, Kipchaks, Turgeshes, Khazars, Seljuk Turks,Ottoman Turks, Mamluks, Timurids, Khiljis, and possibly Huns,Xiongnu, Wusun and the Tauri.[25][24][26][27]



    Map from Kashgari'sDiwan, showing the distribution of Turkic tribes.

    The first known mention of the termTurk (Old Turkic: Türük[28][29]or Kök Türük[28][29] or Türük,[30] Chinese: 突厥, Old Tibetan: duruggu/durgu (meaning "origin"),[31][32] Pinyin: Tūjué, Middle Chinese (Guangyun): [tʰuot-küot]) applied to a Turkic group was in reference to the Göktürks in the 6th century. A letter by Ishbara Qaghanto Emperor Wen of Sui in 585 described him as "the Great Turk Khan."[33] The Orhun inscriptions (735 CE) use the terms Turk and Turuk.
    Previous use of similar terms are of unknown significance, although some strongly feel that they are evidence of the historical continuity of the term and the people as a linguistic unit since early times. This includes Chinese records Spring and Autumn Annals referring to a neighbouring people as Beidi.[34]
    During the first century CE., Pomponius Mela refers to the "Turcae" in the forests north of the Sea of Azov, and Pliny the Elder lists the "Tyrcae" among the people of the same area.[35][36][37][38][39][40][41][42] There are references to certain groups in antiquity whose names could be the original form of "Türk/Türük" such as Togarma, Turukha/Turuška, Turukkuand so on. But the information gap is so substantial that we cannot firmly connect these ancient people to the modern Turks.[43][44][45][46] Turkologist András Róna-Tas posits that the term Turk could be rooted in the East Iranian Saka language[47] or in Turkic.[48] However, it is generally accepted that the term "Türk" is ultimately derived from the Old-Turkicmigration-term[49] "Türük" or "Törük",[50][51] which means "created", "born",[52] or "strong",[53] from the Old Turkic word root *türi-/töri- ("tribal root, (mythic) ancestry; take shape, to be born, be created, arise, spring up") and conjugated with Old Turkic suffix (-ik), perhaps from Proto-Turkic *türi-k ("lineage, ancestry"),[50] from the Proto-Turkic word root *töŕ("foundation, root; origin, ancestors"),[54][55] possibly from a Proto-Altaic source *t`ŏ̀ŕe ("law, regulation").[56] This etymological concept is also related to Old Turkic word stems 'tür' ("root, ancestry, race, kind of, sort of"), 'türi-' ("to bring together, to collect"), 'törü' ("law, custom") and 'töz' ("substance").[50]
    The Chinese Book of Zhou (7th century) presents an etymology of the name Turk as derived from "helmet", explaining that taken this name refers to the shape of the Altai Mountains.[citation needed] According to Persian tradition, as reported by 11th-century ethnographer Mahmud of Kashgar and various other traditional Islamic scholars and historians, the name "Turk" stems from Tur, one of the sons of Japheth (see Turan).
    During the Middle Ages, various Turkic peoples of the Eurasian steppe were subsumed under the identity of the "Scythians".[57] Between 400 CE and the 16th century, Byzantine sources use the name Σκΰθαι (Skuthai) in reference to twelve different Turkic peoples.[57]
    In the modern Turkish language as used in the Republic of Turkey, a distinction is made between "Turks" and the "Turkic peoples" in loosely speaking: the term Türk corresponds specifically to the "Turkish-speaking" people (in this context, "Turkish-speaking" is considered the same as "Turkic-speaking"), while the term Türki refers generally to the people of modern "Turkic Republics" (Türki Cumhuriyetler or Türk Cumhuriyetleri). However, the proper usage of the term is based on the linguistic classification in order to avoid any political sense. In short, the term Türki can be used for Türk or vice versa.[58]

    Origins and early expansion

    Main articles: Turkic migrations, Turkic tribal confederations and Nomadic empires
    Further information: Xiongnu, Huns and Göktürks

    The top of Belukha in the Altay Mountains in Mongolia is shown here. The mountain range is thought to be the birthplace of the Turkic people

    Eastern Hemisphere in 500 BC.

    It is generally agreed that the first Turkic people lived in a region extending from Central Asia to Siberiawith the majority of them living in China historically. Historically they were established after the 6th century BCE.[59] The earliest separate Turkic peoples appeared on the peripheries of the late Xiongnu confederation about 200 B.C [59] (contemporaneous with the Chinese Han Dynasty).[60]Turkic people may be related to theXiongnu, Dingling and Tiele people. According to the Book of Wei, the Tiele people were the remaining of the Chidi (赤狄), the red Di people competing with the Jin in the Spring and Autumn Period.[61] Turkic tribes, such as Khazars and Pechenegs, probably lived as nomads for many years before establishing the Göktürk Empire or Mongolia in the 6th century. These were herdsmen and nobles who were searching for new pastures and wealth. The first mention of Turks was in a Chinese text that mentioned trade of Turk tribes with the Sogdians along the Silk Road.[62] The first recorded use of "Turk" as a political name is a 6th-century reference to the word pronounced in Modern Chinese as Tujue. The Ashina clan migrated from Li-jien (modern Zhelai Zhai) to the Juan Juan seeking inclusion in their confederacy and protection from the prevalent dynasty. The tribe were famed metal smiths and was granted land near a mountain quarry which looked like a helmet, from which they were said to have gotten their name 突厥 (tūjué). A century later, their power had increased such that they conquered the Juan Juan and established the Gök Empire.[63]
    Turkic peoples originally used their own alphabets, like Orkhon and Yeniseyruniform, and later the Uyghur alphabet. Traditional national and cultural symbols of the Turkic peoples include wolves in Turkic mythology and tradition; as well as the color blue, iron, and fire. Turquoise blue, from the French word meaning "Turkish", is the color of the stone turquoise still used as jewelry and a protection against evil eye.
    It has often been suggested that the Xiongnu, mentioned in Han Dynasty records, were Proto-Turkicspeakers.[64][65][66][67][68] Although little is known for certain about the Xiongnu language(s), it seems likely that at least considerable part of Xiongnu tribes spoke a Turkic language.[69] However, some scholars see a possible connection with the Iranian-speaking Sakas.[70] Some scholars believe they were probably a confederation of various ethnic and linguistic groups.[71][72] Genetics research in 2003 on skeletons from a Xiongnu necropolis in Mongolia found some individuals with DNA sequences also present in some modern day's Turks, suggesting that a Turkish component had emerged in the Xiongnu tribe at the end of the Xiongnu period.[73][74]
    Xiongnu writing, older than Turkic is agreed to have the earliest known Turkic alphabet, the Orkhon script. This has been argued recently using the only extant possibly Xiongu writings, the rock art of the Yinshan and Helanshan.[75] It is dated from the 9th millennium BCE to the 19th century, and consists mainly of engraved signs (petroglyphs) and few painted images.[76] Excavations done during 1924–1925, in Noin-Ula kurgans located in Selenga River in the northern Mongolianhills north of Ulan Bator, produced objects with over 20 carved characters, which were either identical or very similar to that of to the runic letters of the Turkic Orkhon script discovered in the Orkhon Valley.[77]
    The Hun hordes of Attila, who invaded and conquered much of Europe in the 5th century, might have been Turkic and descendants of the Xiongnu.[60][78][79] Some scholars argue that the Huns were one of the earlier Turkic tribes, while others argue that they were of Mongolic origin.[80] Linguistic studies by Otto Maenchen-Helfen suggest that while many Hun proper names may have been Turkic in origin,[81][82] the language used by the Huns in Europe was too little documented to be classified, and was more likely an Indo-European language. In the first half of the first millennium, mass migrations to distant places were common, geographical borders were fluid and cultural identity was more likely to change dramatically in the lifetime of an individual, relative to the modern era. These factors also made it more likely that the Huns were, initially at least, closely related to the Turkic peoples.
    In the 6th century, 400 years after the collapse of northern Xiongnu power in Inner Asia, leadership of the Turkic peoples was taken over by the Göktürks. Formerly in the Xiongnu nomadic confederation, the Göktürks inherited their traditions and administrative experience. From 552 to 745, Göktürk leadership united the nomadic Turkic tribes into the Göktürk Empire. The name derives from gok, "blue" or "celestial". Unlike its Xiongnu predecessor, the Göktürk Khanate had its temporary khans from the Ashina clan that were subordinate to a sovereign authority controlled by a council of tribal chiefs. The Khanate retained elements of its original shamanistic religion, Tengriism, although it received missionaries ofBuddhist monks and practiced a syncretic religion. The Göktürks were the first Turkic people to write Old Turkic in a runic script, the Orkhon script. The Khanate was also the first state known as "Turk". It eventually collapsed due to a series of dynastic conflicts, but the name "Turk" was later taken by many states and peoples.
    Turkic peoples and related groups migrated west from Turkestan and what is now Mongolia towards Eastern Europe,Iranian plateau and Anatolia and modern Turkey in many waves.[83] The date of the initial expansion remains unknown. After many battles, they established their own state and later created the Ottoman Empire.[84] The main migration occurred in medieval times, when they spread across most of Asia and into Europe and the Middle East.[63] They also participated in the Crusades.[85]
    Later Turkic peoples include the Avars, Karluks (mainly 8th century), Uyghurs, Kyrgyz, Oghuz (or Ğuz) Turks, andTurkmens. As these peoples were founding states in the area between Mongolia and Transoxiana, they came into contact with Muslims, and most gradually adopted Islam. Small groups of Turkic people practice other religions, includingChristians, Jews (Khazars), Buddhists, and Zoroastrians.
    According to other records, Togarmah (grandson of Japheth) is regarded as the ancestor of the Turkic peoples. For example, The French Benedictine monk and scholar Calmet (1672–1757) places Togarmah in Scythia and Turcomania (in the Eurasian Steppes and Central Asia).[86] Also in his letters, King Joseph ben Aaron, the ruler of the Khazars, writes:
    "You ask us also in your epistle: "Of what people, of what family, and of what tribe are you?" Know that we are descended from Noach's son Japhet, through his son Gomer through his son Togarmah. I have found in the genealogical books of my ancestors that Togarmah had ten sons. These are their names:[87]the eldest was Ujur (Agiôr - Uyghur),the second Tauris (Tirôsz - Tauri),the third Avar (Avôr - Avar),the fourth Uauz (Ugin - Oghuz),the fifth Bizal (Bizel - Pecheneg),the sixth Tarna,the seventh Khazar (Khazar),the eighth Janur (Zagur),the ninth Bulgar (Balgôr - Bulgar),the tenth Sawir (Szavvir/Szabir - Sabir)."In Jewish sources too Togarmah is listed as the father of the Turkic peoples: The medieval Jewish scholar: Joseph ben Gorion lists in his Josippon the ten sons of Togarma as follows:

    1. Kozar (the Khazars)
    2. Pacinak (the Pechenegs)
    3. Aliqanosz (the Alans)
    4. Bulgar (the Bulgars)
    5. Ragbiga (Ragbina, Ranbona)
    6. Turqi (possibly the Kökturks)
    7. Buz (the Oghuz)
    8. Zabuk
    9. Ungari (either the Hungarians or the Oghurs/Onogurs)
    10. Tilmac (Tilmic/Tirôsz - Tauri)."

    In the Chronicles of Jerahmeel, they are listed as:[88]

    1. Cuzar (the Khazars)
    2. Pasinaq (the Pechenegs)
    3. Alan (the Alans)
    4. Bulgar (the Bulgars)
    5. Kanbinah
    6. Turq (possibly the Kökturks)
    7. Buz (the Oghuz)
    8. Zakhukh
    9. Ugar (either the Hungarians or the Oghurs/Onogurs)
    10. Tulmes (Tirôsz - Tauri)

    Another medieval rabbinic work, the Book of Jasher, further corrupts these same names into:

    1. Buzar (the Khazars)
    2. Parzunac (the Pechenegs)
    3. Balgar (the Bulgars)
    4. Elicanum (the Alans)
    5. Ragbib
    6. Tarki (possibly the Kökturks)
    7. Bid (the Oghuz)
    8. Zebuc
    9. Ongal (Hungarians or Oghurs/Onogurs)
    10. Tilmaz (Tirôsz - Tauri).

    In Arabic records, Togorma's tribes are these:

    1. Khazar (the Khazars)
    2. Badsanag (the Pechenegs)
    3. Asz-alân (the Alans)
    4. Bulghar (the Bulgars)
    5. Zabub
    6. Fitrakh (Kotrakh?) (Ko-etrakh. Etrakh means turks [possibly Gokturks])
    7. Nabir
    8. Andsar (Ajhar)
    9. Talmisz (Tirôsz - Tauri)
    10. Adzîgher (Adzhigardak?).

    The Arabic account however, also adds an 11th clan: Anszuh.
    Yet another tradition of the sons of Togarmah appears in Pseudo-Philo, where their names are said to be "Abiud, Saphath, Asapli, and Zepthir". The Chronicles of Jerahmeel, in addition to giving the above names from Yosippon, elsewhere lists Togarmah's sons similarly as "Abihud, Shafat, and Yaftir".
    Middle Ages

    Kipchak portrait, 12th century,Lugansk

    Turkic soldiers in the army of the Abbasid caliphs emerged as the de facto rulers of most of the Muslim Middle East (apart from Syria and Egypt), particularly after the 10th century. The Oghuz and other tribes captured and dominated various countries under the leadership of the Seljuk dynasty and eventually captured the territories of the Abbasid dynasty and the Byzantine Empire.[63]
    Meanwhile, the Kyrgyz and Uyghurs were struggling with one another and with theChinese Empire. The Kyrgyz people ultimately settled in the region now referred to asKyrgyzstan. The Bulgars established themselves in between the Caspian and Black Seas in the 5th and 6th centuries, followed by their conquerors, the Khazars who converted to Judaism in the 8th or 9th century. After them came the Pechenegs who created a large confederacy, which was subsequently taken over by the Cumans and the Kipchaks. One group of Bulgars settled in the Volga region and mixed with local Volga Finns to become the Volga Bulgars in what is today Tatarstan. These Bulgars were conquered by the Mongols following their westward sweep under Genghis Khan in the 13th century. Other Bulgars settled in Southeastern Europe in the 7th and 8th centuries, and mixed with the Slavic population, adopting what eventually became the Slavic Bulgarian language. Everywhere, Turkic groups mixed with the local populations to varying degrees.[63] In 1090–91, the Turkic Pechenegs reached the walls of Constantinople, where Emperor Alexius I with the aid of the Kipchaksannihilated their army.[89]
    Islamic empires

    Main articles: Ghaznavid Empire, Timurids, Delhi Sultanate, Bahri dynasty, Deccan sultanates, Safavid Empire,Ottoman Empire, Mughal Empire and Afsharid Empire

    Suleiman I taking control of Moldova.

    Crimean Khan, Mengli Giray at the court of the Bayezid II.

    Tamerlane and his forces advance against the Golden Horde, KhanTokhtamysh.

    A Mamluk nobleman from Aleppo.

    As the Seljuk Empire declined following theMongol invasion, the Ottoman Empire emerged as the new important Turkic state, that came to dominate not only the Middle East, but even southeastern Europe, parts of southwestern Russia, and northern Africa.[63]
    The Delhi Sultanate is a term used to cover five short-lived, Delhi-based kingdoms three of which were of Turkic origin in medieval India. These Turkic dynasties were the Mamluk dynasty (1206–90); the Khilji dynasty (1290–1320); and the Tughlaq dynasty (1320–1414).Southern India, also saw many Turkic origin dynasties like Adil Shahi dynasty, Bidar Sultanate, Qutb Shahi dynasty, collectively known as Deccan sultanates.
    In Eastern Europe, Volga Bulgaria became an Islamic state in 922 and influenced the region as it controlled many trade routes. In the 13th century, Mongols invaded Europe and established the Golden Horde in Eastern Europe, western & northern Central Asia, and even western Siberia. The Cuman-Kipchak Confederation and Islamic Volga Bulgaria were absorbed by the Golden Horde in the 13th century; in the 14th century, Islam became the official religion under Uzbeg Khan where the general population (Turks) as well as the aristocracy (Mongols) came to speak theKipchak language and were collectively known as "Tatars" by Russians and Westerners. This country was also known as the Kipchak Khanate and covered most of what is today Ukraine, as well as the entirety of modern-day southern and easternRussia (the European section). The Golden Horde disintegrated into several khanates and hordes in the 15th and 16th century including the Crimean Khanate,Khanate of Kazan, and Kazakh Khanate (among others), which were one by one conquered and annexed by the Russian Empire in the 16th through 19th centuries.
    In Siberia, the Siberian Khanate was established in the 1490s by fleeing Tatar aristocrats of the disintegrating Golden Horde who established Islam as the official religion in western Siberia over the partly Islamized native Siberian Tatars and indigenous Uralic peoples. It was the northern-most Islamic state in recorded history and it survived up until 1598 when it was conquered by Russia.
    The Chagatai Khanate was the eastern & southern Central Asian section of the Mongol Empire in what is today part or whole of Tajikistan, Afghanistan, Turkmenistan, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, and Xinjiang ("Uyghurstan"). Like the Ilkhanate and Golden Horde, the Chagatai Khanate became a Muslim state in the 14th century.
    The Timurid Empire were an Turkic Uzbek-based empire founded in the late 14th century by Timurlane, a descendant of Genghis Khan. Timur, although a self-proclaimed devout Muslim, brought great slaughter in his conquest of fellow Muslims in neighboring Islamic territory and contributed to the ultimate demise of many Muslim states, including the Golden Horde.
    The Mughal Empire was a Turkic-founded Indian empire that, at its greatest territorial extent, ruled most of the South Asia, including Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, Bangladesh and parts of Uzbekistan from the early 16th to the early 18th centuries. The Mughal dynasty was founded by a Chagatai Turkic prince named Babur (reigned 1526–30), who was descended from the Turkic conqueror Timur (Tamerlane) on his father's side and from Chagatai, second son of the Mongol ruler Genghis Khan, on his mother's side.[90][91] A further distinction was the attempt of the Mughals to integrate Hindus and Muslims into a united Indian state.[90][92][93][94]
    The Safavid dynasty of Persia, most probably of Azeri (Turkish) origin:[95][96][97] Through intermarriage and other political considerations, the Safavids spoke Persian and Turkish,[98][99] and some of the Shahs composed poems in their native Turkish language. Concurrently, the Shahs themselves also supported Persian literature, poetry and art projects including the grand Shahnama of Shah Tahmasp.[100][101] The Safavid dynasty ruled on the Greater Iran for more than two centuries.[102][103][104][105] and established the Twelver school of Shi'a Islam[106] as the official religion of their empire, marking one of the most important turning points in Muslim history
    The Afsharid dynasty was named after the Turkic Afshar tribe to which they belonged. The Afshars had migrated fromTurkestan to Azerbaijan in the 13th century. The dynasty was founded in 1736 by the military commander Nader Shahwho deposed the last member of the Safavid dynasty and proclaimed himself King of Iran. Nader belonged to the Qereqlu branch of the Afshars.[107] During Nader's reign, Iran reached its greatest extent since the Sassanid Empire.
    Turks in Persian poetry

    Main article: Persian literature
    Countless Muslim authors have left us graphic descriptions of what they considered the essential attributes of the Turks as an ethnic group and the reasons for the latter's pre-eminence in the Islamic world from the eleventh century onwards. These accounts are counterbalanced, often, by desciption of what these same authors considered the all too obvious limitation of the same people. All authors of adabworks, manuals of war, and mirrors for princes, agree on the military superiority of the Turks, their hardniness, their skill with horses and the bow and arrow, as well as their 'lion-like' qualities and pride.[108]Ibn Khaldun considered the Turkish mamlūks to be the saviours of Islam.[109] Nizām al-Mulk recalls that Al-Mu'tasim, the caliph who first introduced a mamlūk army, 'always said that there was none for service (khidmatkār) like the Turk'.[110] 'I can tell that Al-Mu'tasim knew very well what he was about when he made them into a corps and took them into his service', writes also Al-Jāhiz, for '... nothing can withstand [the Turks], and none desires to oppose them'.[111] Mobile as they were, they were never pursued for 'the Turk does not need to escape'.[112] Turkish prowess in arms not only buttressed the caliphs' power in thedār al-Islām, but was also especially effective against the infidel kings of Hind.[113] 'Arrow-shooting Turks' are a favorite topos of Persian poetry, where they are compared with the bubbles in a glass of wine.[114]No other army could charge as well, and Turkish horseman were taught to carry two or three bows and strings to match them.[115] From ethnological parallels it is known that a skilled archer can shoot at least six aimed arrows a minute. The image of the Turk in Persian poetry soon developed into an ideal of manliness, the ideal beloved, white and beautiful, albeit cruel. 'Turk' came to relate to 'Hindu' like 'ruler' to 'slave', 'angel' to 'devil', while for Rūmī, for instance, Turkestan became the heavenly world of light (from which the beloved appeared) and Hind the dark world of matter.[114] Often enough the word 'Turk' was turned into the equivalent of 'Muslim', at least in India, where at times it also became a synonym for soldier. Ultimately the 'lion-like' Turk, with his disdain for menial household tasks, was linked to the climate of his country of origin which predisposed him to a certain robustness and military valour. The nomadic Turks had a strongly developed 'love of homeland' (maḥabbat al-waṭan) or 'longing for homeland' (al-ḥanin 'ilā-l-waṭan). This attachment reinforced the mutual similarity and homogeneity of the Turks which expressed itself in an absolutely single-minded desire to achieve military command. The Turks' very single-mindedness was praised by Muslim writers as 'the only way to achieve anything'. Solely theDailamites were at times regarded as more warlike. But the dark side of the Turkish character, regarded as equally universal, was an insatiable love of plunder and violence. In their own country, 'the Turks do not fight for religion nor for interpretation of Scripture nor for sovereignty nor for taxes nor for patriotism nor for jealousy, unless their women are concerned, nor for defense of their home, nor for wealth, but only for plunder.[116] Given to violent appropriation, they were however free from unnatural vice, they treated prisoners well, kept their promises, and were not given to hypocrisy or intrigue, while being impervious to flattery, and not addicted to 'rivalry in poetic display'.[117] 'The Turks know not how to flatter or coax, they know not how to practise hypocrisy or backbiting, pretence or slander, dishonesty or haughtiness on their acquaintance, or mischief on those that associate with them. They are strangers to heresy and not spoiled by caprice, and they do not make property lawful by quibbles. Their fault which makes them most unpopular is their love of land and love of moving freely up and down the country and propensity for raiding and preoccupation with plunder ...'.[118] Such, in short, were the characteristics of a people which had mastered 'the art of war' to the same degree of perfection as 'the Chinese have attained in art, and the Greeks in philosophy and literature and the Sasanids in empire'.[119] And, unlike other ethnic groups, the Turks were bound to obscurity if they did not leave Turkestān, they achieved fame and fortune only if they left their homeland. 'Since the creation of the world until today no slave (banda) bought for money achieved the position of king (pādshāh) except the Turk'.[120] A former, legendary, king of the Turks is supposed to have said: 'The Turk is like a pearl (dur) in its shell at the bottom of the sea, when it is worth nothing; but when it comes out of its shell, and out of the sea, it becomes valuable and adorns the crown of kings and the neck and ears of brides'.[121]
    Compiled from: Al-Hind, the Making of the Indo-Islamic World: The Slavic Kings and the Islamic conquest, 11th-13th centuries, Oxford University Press, 1997, page 76-78.[122]
    Modern history

    The Ottoman Empire gradually grew weaker in the face of poor administration, repeated wars with Russia and Austro-Hungary, and the emergence of nationalist movements in the Balkans, and it finally gave way after World War I to the present-day Republic of Turkey.[63] Ethnic nationalism also developed in Ottoman Empire during the 19th century, taking the form of Pan-Turkism or Turanism.
    The Turkic peoples of Central Asia were not organized in nation-states during most of the 20th century, after the collapse of the Russian Empire living either in the Soviet Union or (after a short-lived First East Turkestan Republic) in the Chinese Republic.
    In 1991, after the disintegration of the Soviet Union, five Turkic states gained their independence. These were Azerbaijan,Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Turkmenistan, and Uzbekistan. Other Turkic regions such as Tatarstan, Tuva, and Yakutiaremained in the Russian Federation. Chinese Turkestan remained part of the People's Republic of China.
    Immediately after the independence of the Turkic states, Turkey began seeking diplomatic relations with them. Over time political meetings between the Turkic countries increased and led to the establishment of TÜRKSOY in 1993 and later theTurkic Council in 2009.
    Geographical distribution

    Descriptive map of Turkic peoples.

    Countries and autonomous subdivisions where a Turkic language has official status and/or is spoken by a majority.

    Many of the Turkic peoples have their homelands in Central Asia, where the Turkic peoples settled from China. According to historian John Foster, "The Turks emerge from among the Huns in the middle of [the] fifth century. They were living in Liang territory when it began to be overrun by the greater principality of Wei. Preferring to remain under the rule of their own kind, they moved westward into what is now the province of Kansu. This was the territory of kindred Huns, who were called the Rouran. The Turks were a small tribe of only five hundred families, and they became serfs to the Rouran, who used them as iron-workers. It is thought that the original meaning of "Turk" is "helmet", and that they may have taken this name because of the shape of one of the hills near which they worked. As their numbers and power grew, their chief made bold to ask for the hand of a Rouran princess in marriage. The demand was refused, and war followed. In 546, the iron-workers defeated their overlords."[123] Since then Turkic languages have spread, through migrations and conquests, to other locations including present-day Turkey. While the term "Turk" may refer to a member of any Turkic people, the term Turkish usually refers specifically to the people and language of the modern country of Turkey.
    The Turkic languages constitute a language family of some 30 languages, spoken across a vast area from Eastern Europe and the Mediterranean, to Siberia and Western China, and through to the Middle East.
    Some 170 million people have a Turkic language as their native language;[124] an additional 20 million people speak a Turkic language as a second language. The Turkic language with the greatest number of speakers is Turkish proper, orAnatolian Turkish, the speakers of which account for about 40% of all Turkic speakers.[125] More than one third of these are ethnic Turks of Turkey, dwelling predominantly in Turkey proper and formerly Ottoman-dominated areas of Eastern Europe and West Asia; as well as in Western Europe, Australia and the Americas as a result of immigration. The remainder of the Turkic people are concentrated in Central Asia, Russia, the Caucasus, China, and northern Iraq.
    At present, there are six independent Turkic countries: Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Turkmenistan, Turkey,Uzbekistan; There are also several Turkic national subdivisions[126] in the Russian Federation including Bashkortostan,Tatarstan, Chuvashia, Khakassia, Tuva, Yakutia, the Altai Republic, Kabardino-Balkaria, and Karachayevo-Cherkessiya. Each of these subdivisions has its own flag, parliament, laws, and official state language (in addition to Russian).
    The Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region in western China and the autonomous region of Gagauzia, located within eastern Moldova and bordering Ukraine to the north, are two major autonomous Turkic regions. The Autonomous Republic of Crimea within Ukraine is a home of Crimean Tatars. In addition, there are several Iraq, Georgia, Bulgaria, the Republic of Macedonia, Tajikistan, Afghanistan, and western Mongolia.
    The Turks in Turkey are over 60 million[127] to 70 million worldwide, while the second largest Turkic people are theAzerbaijanis, numbering 22 to 38 million worldwide; most of them live in Azerbaijan and Iran.
    Turks in India are very small in number. There are barely 150 Turkish people from Turkey in India. These are recent immigrants. Descendants of Turkish rulers also exist in Northern India. Mughals who are part Turkic people also live in India in significant numbers. They are descendants of the Mughal rulers of India. Karlugh Turks are also found in small amounts in Srinagar region of Kashmir. Small amount of Uyghurs are also present in India. Turks also exist in Pakistan in similar proportions. One of the tribe in Hazara region of Pakistan is Karlugh Turks which is direct descendent of Turks of Central Asia. Turkish influence in Pakistan can be seen through the national language, Urdu, which comes from a Turkish word meaning "horde" or "army".
    The Western Yugur at Gansu in China, Salar at Qinghai in China, the Dolgan at Krasnoyarsk Krai in Russia, and the Nogai at Dagestan in Russia are the Turk minorities in the respective regions.
    International organizations

    Map of TÜRKSOY members.

    Further information: Pan-Turkism
    There are several international organizations created with the purpose of furthering cooperation between countries with Turkic-speaking populations, such as the Joint Administration of Turkic Arts and Culture (TÜRKSOY) and the Parliamentary Assembly of Turkic-speaking Countries (TÜRKPA).
    The newly established Turkic Council, founded on November 3, 2009 by theNakhchivan Agreement Mongolian confederation, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan and Turkey, aims to integrate these organizations into a tighter geopolitical framework.

    Bashkirs, painting from 1812, Paris

    The distribution of people of Turkic cultural background ranges from Siberia, across Central Asia, to Eastern Europe. As of 2011 the largest groups of Turkic people live throughout Central Asia—Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, andAzerbaijan, in addition to Turkey and Iran. Additionally, Turkic people are found withinCrimea, East Turkistan region of western China, northern Iraq, Israel, Russia,Afghanistan, and the Balkans: Moldova, Bulgaria, Romania, and former Yugoslavia. A small number of Turkic people also live in Vilnius, the capital of Lithuania. Small numbers inhabit eastern Poland and the south-eastern part of Finland.[128] There are also considerable populations of Turkic people (originating mostly from Turkey) inGermany, United States, and Australia, largely because of migrations during the 20th century.
    Sometimes ethnographers group Turkic people into six branches: the Oghuz Turks,Kipchak, Karluk, Siberian, Chuvash, and Sakha/Yakut branches. The Oghuz have been termed Western Turks, while the remaining five, in such a classificatory scheme, are called Eastern Turks.
    All the Turkic peoples native to Central Asia are of mixed Caucasoid and Mongoloid origin. The genetic distances between the different populations of Uzbeks scattered across Uzbekistan is no greater than the distance between many of them and the Karakalpaks. This suggests that Karakalpaks and Uzbeks have very similar origins. The Karakalpaks have a somewhat greater bias towards the eastern markers than the Uzbeks.[129]
    Historical population:
    Year Population
    1 AD 2-2,5 million?
    2013 150-200 million
    The Turkic people display a great variety of ethnic types.[130] They possess physical features ranging from Caucasoid toNorthern Mongoloid. Mongoloid and Caucasoid facial structure is common among many Turkic groups, such as Chuvash people, Tatars, Kazakhs, Uzbeks, Hazaras, and Bashkirs. Historically, the racial classification of the Turkic peoples was sometimes given as "Turanid".
    The following incomplete list of Turkic people shows the respective groups' core areas of settlement and their estimated sizes (in millions):
    People Region Population Modern language Predominant religion
    Turkish people
    Turkey, Germany, Algeria, Iraq, Bulgaria, Georgia, Syria, Yugoslavia, Greece 70 M Turkish Sunni Islam and Alevism
    Azerbaijanis Azerbaijan Republic, Iran, Iraq, Turkey, Russia, Georgia 30 M Azerbaijani Shia Islam
    Uzbeks Uzbekistan, Afghanistan, Tajikistan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Turkmenistan, Pakistan 28,3 M Uzbek Sunni Islam
    Kazakhs Kazakhstan, Russia, China, Uzbekistan 13.8 M Kazakh Sunni Islam
    Uyghurs China (Xinjiang), Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, Turkey 9 M Uyghur Sunni Islam
    Turkmens Turkmenistan, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan 8 M Turkmen Sunni Islam
    Tatars Russia, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, Tajikistan, Poland, Lithuania, Finland 7 M Tatar Sunni Islam
    Kyrgyzs Kyrgyzstan, Afghanistan, Uzbekistan, China, Tajikistan 4,5 M Kyrgyz Sunni Islam
    Bashkirs Russia, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan 2 M Bashkir Sunni Islam
    Crimean Tatars Ukraine (Crimea), Russia, Uzbekistan, Turkey, Romania 0.5 to 2 M Crimean Tatar Sunni Islam
    Qashqai Iran 1.7 M Qashqai Shia Islam
    Chuvashes Russia 1.7 M Chuvash Orthodox Christianity
    Karakalpaks Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan 0.6 M Karakalpak Sunni Islam
    Yakuts Russia 0.5 M Sakha Orthodox Christianity
    Kumyks Russia 0.4 M Kumyk Sunni Islam
    Karachays and Balkars Russia, Turkey 0.4 M Karachay-Balkar Sunni Islam
    Tuvans Russia 0.3 M Tuvan Tibetan Buddhism
    Gagauzs Moldova, Greece 0.2 M Gagauz Orthodox Christianity
    Turkic Karaites andKrymchaks Lithuania, Poland, Russia, Turkey 0.2 M Karaim andKrymchak Judaism

    A page from "Codex Kumanicus". The Codex was designed in order to help Catholicmissionaries communicate with theKumans.

    Main article: Turkic languages
    Further information: Turkic alphabets (disambiguation)
    The Turkic alphabets are sets of related alphabets with letters (formerly known asrunes), used for writing mostly Turkic languages. Inscriptions in Turkic alphabets were found from Mongolia and Eastern Turkestan in the east to Balkans in the west. Most of the preserved inscriptions were dated to between 8th and 10th centuries CE.
    The earliest positively dated and read Turkic inscriptions date from c. 150, and the alphabets were generally replaced by the Uyghur alphabet in the Central Asia, Arabic script in the Middle and Western Asia, Greek-derived Cyrillic in Eastern Europe and in the Balkans, and Latin alphabet in Central Europe. The latest recorded use ofTurkic alphabet was recorded in Central Europe's Hungary in 1699 CE.
    The Turkic runiform scripts, unlike other typologically close scripts of the world, do not have a uniform palaeography as, for example, have the Gothic runes, noted for the exceptional uniformity of its language and paleography.[131] The Turkic alphabets are divided into four groups, the best known of them is the Orkhon version of the Enisei group. The Orkhon script is the alphabet used by the Göktürks from the 8th century to record the Old Turkic language. It was later used by the Uyghur Empire; a Yeniseivariant is known from 9th-century Kyrgyz inscriptions, and it has likely cousins in theTalas Valley of Turkestan and the Old Hungarian script of the 10th century.
    The Turkic language family is traditionally considered to be part of the proposed Altaic language family.[125][132][133][134]The Altaic language family includes 66 languages[135] spoken by about 348 million people, mostly in and around Central Asia and northeast Asia.[132][136][137]
    The various Turkic languages are usually considered in geographical groupings: the Oghuz (or Southwestern) languages, the Kypchak (or Northwestern) languages, the Eastern languages (like Uygur), the Northern languages (like Altay andYakut), and one existing Oghur language: Chuvash (the other Oghur languages, like Hunnic and Bulgaric, are now extinct). The high mobility and intermixing of Turkic peoples in history makes an exact classification extremely difficult.
    The Turkish language belongs to the Oghuz subfamily of Turkic. It is for the most part mutually intelligible with the other Oghuz languages, which include Azerbaijani, Gagauz, Turkmen and Urum, and to a varying extent with the other Turkic languages.

    A shaman doctor ofKyzyl.

    Early Turkic mythology and shamanism

    Main articles: Mythology of the Turkic and Mongolian peoples and Shamanism in Central Asia
    Pre-Islamic Turkic mythology was dominated by shamanism. The chief deity was Tengri, asky god, worshipped by the upper classes of early Turkic society until Manichaeism was introduced as the official religion of the Uyghur Empire in 763. The Wolf symbolizes honour and is also considered the mother of most Turkic peoples. Asena (Ashina Tuwu) is the wolf mother of Tumen Il-Qağan, the first Khan of the Göktürks. The Horse is also one of the main figures of Turkic mythology.
    Religious conversions

    Tengri Bögü Khan made the now extinct Manichaeism the state religion of Uyghur Khaganate in 763 and it was also popular inKarluks. It was gradually replaced by the Mahayana Buddhism.[citation needed] It existed in the Buddhist UyghurGaochang up to the 12th century.[138]
    Tibetan Buddhism, or Vajrayana was the main religion after Manichaeism.[139] They worshipped Täŋri Täŋrisi Burxan,[140] Quanšï Im Pusar[141] and Maitri Burxan.[142] TurkicMuslim conquest in the Indian subcontinent and west Xinjiang attributed with a rapid and almost total disappearance of it and other religions in North India and Central Asia. The Sari Uygurs "Yellow Yughurs" of Western China, as well as the Tuvans of Russia are the only remaining Buddhist Turkic peoples.
    The Krymchaks of Eastern Europe (Especially Crimea) are Jewish, and there are Turks of Jewish backgrounds who live in major cities such as Istanbul, Ankara and Baku. The Khazars widely practiced Judaism before their conversion to Islam.[citation needed]
    Even though many Turkic peoples became Muslims under the influence of Sufis, often of Shī‘ah persuasion, most Turkic people today are Sunni Muslims, although a significant number in Turkey are Alevis. Alevi Turks, who were once primarily dwelling in eastern Anatolia, are today concentrated in major urban centers in western Turkey with the increased urbanism.
    The major Christian-Turkic peoples are the Chuvash of Chuvashia and the Gagauz (Gökoğuz) of Moldova. The traditional religion of the Chuvash of Russia, while containing many ancient Turkic concepts, also shares some elements withZoroastrianism, Khazar Judaism, and Islam. The Chuvash converted to Eastern Orthodox Christianity for the most part in the second half of the 19th century. As a result, festivals and rites were made to coincide with Orthodox feasts, and Christian rites replaced their traditional counterparts. A minority of the Chuvash still profess their traditional faith.[143]Church of the East was popular among Turks such as the Naimans.[144] It even revived in Gaochang and expanded inXinjiang in the Yuan dynasty period.[145][146][147] It disappeared after its collapse.[148][149]

    Medieval times

    Modern times

    See also

    Further reading

    • Alpamysh, H.B. Paksoy: Central Asian Identity under Russian Rule (Hartford: AACAR, 1989)
    • Amanjolov A.S., "History of тhe Ancient Turkic Script", Almaty, "Mektep", 2003, ISBN 9965-16-204-2
    • Baichorov S.Ya., "Ancient Turkic runic monuments of the Europe", Stavropol, 1989 (In Russian)
    • Baskakov, N.A. 1962, 1969. Introduction to the study of the Turkic languages. Moscow. (In Russian).
    • Beckwith, Christopher I. (2009): Empires of the Silk Road: A History of Central Eurasia from the Bronze Age to the Present. Princeton: Princeton University Press. ISBN 978-0-691-13589-2.
    • Boeschoten, Hendrik & Lars Johanson. 2006. Turkic languages in contact. Turcologica, Bd. 61. Wiesbaden: Harrassowitz. ISBN 3-447-05212-0.
    • Chavannes, Édouard (1900): Documents sur les Tou-kiue (Turcs) occidentaux. Paris, Librairie d'Amérique et d'Orient. Reprint: Taipei. Cheng Wen Publishing Co. 1969.
    • Clausen, Gerard. 1972. An etymological dictionary of pre-thirteenth-century Turkish. Oxford: Oxford University Press.
    • Deny, Jean et al. 1959–1964. Philologiae Turcicae Fundamenta. Wiesbaden: Harrassowitz.
    • Findley, Carter Vaughn. 2005. The Turks in World History. Oxford University Press. ISBN 0-19-516770-8; ISBN 0-19-517726-6 (pbk.)
    • Golden, Peter B. An introduction to the history of the Turkic peoples: Ethnogenesis and state-formation in medieval and early modern Eurasia and the Middle East, (Otto Harrassowitz (Wiesbaden) 1992) ISBN 3-447-03274-X
    • Heywood, Colin. The Turks (The Peoples of Europe), (Blackwell 2005), ISBN 978-0-631-15897-4.
    • Hostler, Charles Warren. The Turks of Central Asia, (Greenwood Press, November 1993), ISBN 0-275-93931-6.
    • Ishjatms N., "Nomads In Eastern Central Asia", in the "History of civilizations of Central Asia", Volume 2, UNESCO Publishing, 1996, ISBN 92-3-102846-4.
    • Johanson, Lars & Éva Agnes Csató (ed.). 1998. The Turkic languages. London: Routledge. ISBN 0-415-08200-5.
    • Johanson, Lars. 1998. "The history of Turkic." In: Johanson & Csató, pp. 81–125. Classification of Turkic languages
    • Johanson, Lars. 1998. "Turkic languages." In: Encyclopædia Britannica. CD 98. Encyclopædia Britannica Online, 5 September. 2007. Turkic languages: Linguistic history.
    • Kyzlasov I.L., "Runic Scripts of Eurasian Steppes", Moscow, Eastern Literature, 1994, ISBN 5-02-017741-5.
    • Lebedynsky, Iaroslav. (2006). Les Saces: Les « Scythes » d'Asie, VIIIe siècle apr. J.-C. Editions Errance, Paris. ISBN 2-87772-337-2.
    • Malov S.E., "Monuments of the ancient Turkic inscriptions. Texts and research", M.-L., 1951 (In Russian).
    • Mukhamadiev A., "Turanian Writing", in "Problems Of Lingo-Ethno-History Of The Tatar People", Kazan, 1995, ISBN 5-201-08300 (Азгар Мухамадиев, "Туранская Письменность", "Проблемы лингвоэтноистории татарского народа", Казань, 1995. с.38), ISBN 5-201-08300, (in Russian)
    • Menges, K. H. 1968. The Turkic languages and peoples: An introduction to Turkic studies. Wiesbaden: Harrassowitz.
    • Öztopçu, Kurtuluş. 1996. Dictionary of the Turkic languages: English, Azerbaijani, Kazakh, Kyrgyz, Tatar, Turkish, Turkmen, Uighur, Uzbek. London: Routledge. ISBN 0-415-14198-2
    • Samoilovich, A. N. 1922. Some additions to the classification of the Turkish languages. Petrograd.
    • Schönig, Claus. 1997–1998. "A new attempt to classify the Turkic languages I-III." Turkic Languages 1:1.117–133, 1:2.262–277, 2:1.130–151.
    • Vasiliev D.D. Graphical fund of Turkic runiform writing monuments in Asian areal. М., 1983, (In Russian)
    • Vasiliev D.D. Corpus of Turkic runiform monuments in the basin of Enisei. М., 1983, (In Russian)
    • Voegelin, C.F. & F.M. Voegelin. 1977. Classification and index of the World's languages. New York: Elsevier.


    External links

    New DNA Results

  2. #272
    Avatar von Nikos

    Registriert seit
    Du brauchst uns nicht irgend einen irre langen Text hierhin zu kopieren.
    Es geht nicht um die Turkvölker, sondern um die "Türkei-Türken",
    welche ethnisch gesehen nicht alle Türken sind,

  3. #273
    Avatar von Barut

    Registriert seit
    Das ist kein "irgendein" langer Text. In diesem Thread geht es um turanisatische Kultur und Musik und die Turk-Völker gehören nunmal dazu. Muss man wissen. Was sind denn ethnische Türkei Türken?

  4. #274
    Zitat Zitat von Nikos Beitrag anzeigen
    Du brauchst uns nicht irgend einen irre langen Text hierhin zu kopieren.
    Es geht nicht um die Turkvölker, sondern um die "Türkei-Türken",
    welche ethnisch gesehen nicht alle Türken sind,
    Das stimmt leben vielen Albaner, Bosnier, Griechen, Armänier, Araber bzw. die Türken haben sich mit diesen vermischt somit ist unser Genpool somit Multikulturel aber Türken sind wir trotzdem bzw. behaupten von uns selbst Türken zu sein. Was also bleibt ist die Ideologie eines Türken. Bestes Beispiel der Türkische Stürmer Hakan Sükür er selbst ist Ethnisch gesehen Albaner von sich selbst sagte er aber auch er seih Türke.

    Du wirst außer eventuell den Kurden niemanden in der Türkei finden, der sich nicht für einen "reinen Türken" hält. Selbst meine Mutter die wenig aussieht wie eine "Asiatische Türkin" behauptet von sich immer das sich von Stamm her rein Türkisch ist.

    Aber mal so eine Gegenfrage, wieso fragt man sowas in einem Musik-Thread?

  5. #275
    Avatar von Nikos

    Registriert seit
    Zitat Zitat von Qasr-el-Yahud Beitrag anzeigen
    Was sind denn ethnische Türkei Türken?
    Tut mir leid, ich vergas. Ihr seid ja alle "waschechte" Türken.

    - - - Aktualisiert - - -

    Zitat Zitat von Amarok Beitrag anzeigen
    Das stimmt leben vielen Albaner, Bosnier, Griechen, Armänier, Araber bzw. die Türken haben sich mit diesen vermischt somit ist unser Genpool somit Multikulturel aber Türken sind wir trotzdem bzw. behaupten von uns selbst Türken zu sein. Was also bleibt ist die Ideologie eines Türken. Bestes Beispiel der Türkische Stürmer Hakan Sükür er selbst ist Ethnisch gesehen Albaner von sich selbst sagte er aber auch er seih Türke.

    Du wirst außer eventuell den Kurden niemanden in der Türkei finden, der sich nicht für einen "reinen Türken" hält. Selbst meine Mutter die wenig aussieht wie eine "Asiatische Türkin" behauptet von sich immer das sich von Stamm her rein Türkisch ist.

    Aber mal so eine Gegenfrage, wieso fragt man sowas in einem Musik-Thread?
    Na dann.

  6. #276

    Registriert seit
    Ich gebe Dir ein Beispiel:

    Die Römer haben eine hohe Kultur gehabt (die sich in gewissen Punkten sehr von der hellenischen Unterschied),
    aber sie haben ihre römische Kultur an sich stets unter der griechischen gesehen.

    sie waren sich gegenüber so fair und akzeptierten, dass sie an sich kaum was eigenes geschaffen haben.

    Deshalb spricht man auch von der Graeco-römischen Kultur, aber eingebettet in der griechischen Welt, wie auch das Christentum, woraus es inhaltlich auch entstanden ist.

    Man kann es also verstehen.

    Aber was soll das Türkentum sein, was hat es der Welt Neues gegeben, dass man es als "TUM" betrachten könne?

  7. #277
    Zitat Zitat von Nikos Beitrag anzeigen
    Tut mir leid, ich vergas. Ihr seid ja alle "waschechte" Türken.

    - - - Aktualisiert - - -

    Na dann.
    Bitte meinen Beitrag Lesen. Ihr seit auch nicht "waschechte Griechen" ein Mix aus Balkan, Europäern, Iranern, Türken und Arabern und das sieht man auch deutlich. Wir alle sind nicht mehr "waschechte" aber nochmal wieso gehört es hier rein?

  8. #278
    Avatar von Nikos

    Registriert seit
    Zitat Zitat von Amarok Beitrag anzeigen
    Bitte meinen Beitrag Lesen. Ihr seit auch nicht "waschechte Griechen" ein Mix aus Balkan, Europäern, Iranern, Türken und Arabern und das sieht man auch deutlich. Wir alle sind nicht mehr "waschechte" aber nochmal wieso gehört es hier rein?
    Ja, es gib kein reines Volk, aber selbst da gibt es schon verschiedene Größenordnungen.

  9. #279
    Zitat Zitat von Amphion Beitrag anzeigen
    Ich gebe Dir ein Beispiel:

    Die Römer haben eine hohe Kultur gehabt (die sich in gewissen Punkten sehr von der hellenischen Unterschied),
    aber sie haben ihre römische Kultur an sich stets unter der griechischen gesehen.

    sie waren sich gegenüber so fair und akzeptierten, dass sie an sich kaum was eigenes geschaffen haben.

    Deshalb spricht man auch von der Graeco-römischen Kultur, aber eingebettet in der griechischen Welt, wie auch das Christentum, woraus es inhaltlich auch entstanden ist.

    Man kann es also verstehen.

    Aber was soll das Türkentum sein, was hat es der Welt Neues gegeben, dass man es als "TUM" betrachten könne?
    Als Türkentum, ist es von Türken für Türken. Mehr braucht es auch nicht sein oder tun.

  10. #280
    Avatar von Barut

    Registriert seit
    Zitat Zitat von Nikos Beitrag anzeigen
    Tut mir leid, ich vergas. Ihr seid ja alle "waschechte" Türken.
    Kein Problem! Ich als Kayı Türke sehe das nicht so eng wie du. Ich habe nur ein Problem damit wenn nicht Türken den Türken erzählen wollen was sie zu sein haben.

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