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Ägypten droht Bürgerkrieg

Erstellt von Sonny, 05.07.2013, 19:44 Uhr · 438 Antworten · 29.468 Aufrufe

  1. #61
    Avatar von liberitas

    Registriert seit
    02.01.2011
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    10.186
    Willst Du absichtlich Europäer gegen den Islam hetzen? Ich schau nur Bilder u. Videos von vertrauenswürdigen Quellen und solche Bilder, na ja...

  2. #62
    Avatar von kewell

    Registriert seit
    06.06.2011
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  3. #63

    Registriert seit
    23.11.2009
    Beiträge
    2.543
    Hier ein letzter Update über diesen Vorfall, interessant sind vor allem die verschiedene Reaktionen. Abul-Fotouh hat schon gefordert, dass der neue Präsident auch weg geht. Die Nour-Partei steigt aus den Diskussionen über die neue Regierung aus. Also, fast alle islamistische Kräfte scheinen, von der neuen Regierung Abstand zu halten. Und ohne Islamisten ist diese nutzlos, denke ich.

    Die Situation ist sehr kritisch, und mir scheint es so, dass die Armee nicht wirklich eine nationale Versöhnung bringen kann/will. Ich hoffe, dass es nicht in die Richtung Bürgerkrieg geht, aber im Moment gibt es viele Zeichen dafür. So ein Versagen wäre für die globale Demokratie-Bewegung ein großer Rückschlag, Ägypten spielte in dieser Bewegung eine ganz zentrale Rolle.




    UPDATE 4: 42 die in clashes between Egypt army and pro-Morsi protesters


    Brotherhood claims army opened fire on peaceful protesters, army says 'armed terrorist group' tried to storm Republican Guard HQ; health ministry confirms 42 dead; one officer dead; Islamist leaders condemn killings

    Prosecutors have begun on Monday afternoon an investigation into the bloody clashes between the Egyptian army and pro-Morsi protesters at the Republican Guard headquarters in Cairo earlier in the day.The clashes left at least 42 civilians dead and 322 injured.
    Meanwhile, the Egyptian army said one officer died and 40 soldiers were injured, including seven in critical condition.
    Prosecutors said they had found bullets, birdshot and Molotov cocktails in the vicinity of the clashes near the Republican Guard headquarters in Cairo's Nasr City.
    A delegation of prosecutors visited Zenhom morgue where some of the dead were taken, while another interviewed victims in local hospitals.

    Contradictory stories
    Conflicting reports have emerged on how the clashes started on the fifth day of a Muslim Brotherhood spearheaded sit-in at the army facility to demand the return of deposed President Mohamed Morsi.
    In an official statement published by Al-Ahram Arabic news website, the army said an "armed terrorist group" attempted to break into the Republican Guard headquarters in the early hours of Monday and "attacked security forces."
    The Muslim Brotherhood's FJP, however, issued an official statement saying "peaceful protesters were performing the Fajjr (dawn) prayers" when the army "fired tear gas and gunshots at them without any consideration for the sanctity of prayers or life."

    "This is also a violation against people's right to peaceful protest," it added.

    Large numbers of women and young people sought shelter in a nearby mosque, the Brotherhood statement said, but the security forces "besieged the mosque and arrested anyone who came out of it."
    “This has never happened before in the history of the Egyptian army,” the FJP statement added.
    “Perhaps there are still some wise men in the army who can put a stop to this behavior which is abnormal to the Egyptian army.”

    The army, however, said it had arrested at least 200 people who had “large quantities of firearms, ammunition and Molotov cocktails.”
    It also said that it had reopened Salah Salem Road which had been blocked by pro-Morsi protesters.
    President Morsi was deposed by Egypt's Armed Forces on Wednesday following nationwide protests calling for his ouster. Judge Adly Mansour, the head of the High Constitutional Court, was sworn in as the country's interim president on Thursday.
    Morsi's removal sparked anger among his supporters, mainly Islamists, spearheaded by the Muslim Brotherhood.
    The National Alliance for Supporting Legitimacy, a pro-Morsi group formed to back his right to complete his term of office, continues its sit-in at Rabaa Al-Adawiya Mosque in Cairo’s Nasr City district.
    Other pro-Morsi groups have been protesting elsewhere, most notable at Nahdet Misr Square in Giza.

    Political reactions and fallout
    Shortly after the deadly clashes, Strong Egypt Party leader Abdel-Moneim Abul-Fotouh, a critic of former President Morsi, called on interim president Adly Mansour to step down.
    Abul-Fotouh, who resigned from the Muslim Brotherhood shortly after the 2011 uprising, told Al Jazeera that the incident was "a horrible crime against humanity and all Egyptians."
    Also on Monday, the Salafist Nour Party, which had initially backed the ouster of President Mohamed Morsi, announced that it "will withdraw from the political process" in response to the incident.
    "We wanted to avoid bloodshed, but now blood has been spilled. So now we want to announce that we will end all negotiations with the new authorities," Nour added.
    Meanwhile, Constitution Party leader Mohamed ElBaradei has called for an independent investigation into clashes at the Republican Guard headquarters that left at least 42 dead on Monday morning.
    “Violence begets violence and should be strongly condemned,” ElBaradei said via Twitter. “Independent investigation a must. Peaceful transition is only way.”


    UPDATE 4: 42 die in clashes between Egypt army and pro-Morsi protesters - Politics - Egypt - Ahram Online


  4. #64
    Yunan
    Kleine Anmerkung am Rande: Als bei den Protesten gegen die Verfassung Ende letzten Jahres und Anfang diesen Jahres 80 Menschen und mehr gestorben sind, ist das große Wehklagen der Neoosmanen ausgeblieben. Als es Proteste in der Türkei gab, hat es sich nur um Terroristen und Banditen gehandelt. Jetzt, nachdem durch Edward Snowden und Ägypten die Medienpräsenz der Taksim-Proteste abgenommen haben, traut sich Sultan Erdogan wieder das Maul aufzureissen.

    Die Dinge in Ägypten laufen aktuell in eine falsche Richtung und ich denke, dass alle Seiten, sowohl Opposition als auch Muslimbrüder und Armee ihre Teil dazu beitragen. Aber was man hier teilweise in den Threads liest, ist an Doppelmoral nicht zu übertreffen und erinnert mehr an Rechthaberei und Beurteilung mit zweierlei Maß zu tun als mit Objektivität. Die Muslimbrüder werden aktuell Opfer ungerechtfertigter Gewalt genauso wie es die Demonstranten gegen Moursi vor einigen Monaten waren. Nicht mehr und nicht weniger.

    - - - Aktualisiert - - -

    Dieses Foto kann ich nicht verifizieren, es wird im Zusammenhang mit den Protesten für Moursi gezeigt.

    clip_Unbenannt_phixr.jpg

    clip_Unbenannt_phixr.jpg

  5. #65
    Avatar von Ademus Papa

    Registriert seit
    16.10.2011
    Beiträge
    918
    Pro Mursi Anhänger erklärt Krieg gegen alle Nicht-Muslime (Christen,Schiiten,Säkulare...)



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=PZWD75G_VpI

    Gibt es Parallelen zur NSDAP?

  6. #66
    Avatar von ZX 7R

    Registriert seit
    31.01.2012
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    20.866
    Zitat Zitat von Ademus Papa Beitrag anzeigen
    Pro Mursi Anhänger erklärt Krieg gegen alle Nicht-Muslime (Christen,Schiiten,Säkulare...)



    Gibt es Parallelen zur NSDAP?
    Nein, die erklären allem nicht Deutschen oder Manche allen Nichtweissen den Krieg!

  7. #67
    Avatar von Ilan

    Registriert seit
    25.06.2009
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    10.221


    War ja klar... die Juden als Sündenbock. Lang lebe Mossad.

    Zitat Zitat von Albyyy Beitrag anzeigen
    Bitte nicht sowas.

    Wird der neue wenigstens neutraler und nicht sehr israel-feindlich?
    Israelfeindlich ist Ägypten eigentlich schon lange nicht mehr.

  8. #68
    Yunan
    Gestern sollen übrigens Uniformen der Armee entwendet worden sein. Das muss noch irgendwie verifiziert werden.

  9. #69

    Registriert seit
    30.08.2011
    Beiträge
    8.480
    Zitat Zitat von Yunan Beitrag anzeigen
    Die USA-Hörigkeit der Muslimbrüder ist kein Geheimnis.

    - - - Aktualisiert - - -






    Anhang 42644

    Die Seelenverwandtschaft zwischen denen und euch pseudotoleranten Gutmenschen ist unverkennbar. Die Nazis wissen dass sie radikal sind, du und deinesgleichen haltet euch noch für bessere Menschen.

    Vollkommen egal ob solche Leute es "verdient" haben in Bosnien zu leben o.ä. Es ist ok bestimmte Dinge zu kritisieren. Nur dann sollte man drei Minuten später nicht in irgendwelchen Menschenrechtsfragen Schlachten schlagen, denn ob es einem gefällt oder nicht, viele Menschenrechte gelten auch für den erbittertesten Gegner. Du hast das selbe Problem wie die USA. Erst große Reden schwingen über Menschenrechte etc., aber wenn es hart auf hart kommt haben die anderen eben den kürzeren gezogen.
    Zitat Zitat von Bambi Beitrag anzeigen
    Das sagt mir jemand, der das Griechentum über Blut-und-Boden-Ideologien definiert, ich lach mich schlapp, köstlich.
    Zitat Zitat von Yunan Beitrag anzeigen
    Blut und Boden? Lach dich schlapp, es waren die Handscharen die aus Bosnien kamen, meine Liebe, und wir haben sie getötet mit allen anderen Faschisten dazu. Nur weil du in deinem so angeblich linken Denken so selbstüberzeugt bist und scheinbar nicht kapierst, dass die Uhren auf dem Balkan anders ticken, was auch bedeutet dass der balkanische Nationalismus nicht gleichgesetzt werden kann mit dem Nationalismus der Europäer, machst du hier so einen Aufstand? Wir töten die Faschisten, heißen die Welt willkommen und halten unsere Fahne dennoch hoch. So ist das bei uns, kapier es oder kapier es nicht, Njemac. Und jetzt leiste ein bisschen "Integrationsarbeit" in deinem Jugendzentrum oder wo auch immer du rumlungerst und bring den Leuten das Deutschtum bei.
    Einigen wir uns darauf, dass ihr beides Heuchler seid die niemanden gegenseitig was vorwerfen brauchen, da sie diesbezüglich beide voller Doppelmoral sind.

    Bambi in Bezug auf Araber, Yunan in Bezug auf den Westen bzw. dass er bei seinem eigenen Land nationalistisch eingestellt ist und selbst aber vorgibt angeblich links zu sein.

  10. #70
    Yunan
    Hier einmal die Gegenseite:

    The Most Worrying Thing About Egypt's Coup: the Police

    After a return of Mubarak-era elements and strong-arm tactics, revolutionaries have yet to articulate a clear vision of a functional, pluralistic government.
    THANASSIS CAMBANIS JUL 8 2013, 7:00 AM ET



    Reuters
    CAIRO - History doesn't operate in perfect analogies, but I couldn't help comparing the celebration that marked President Morsi's overthrow to the more exuberant outbreak when Hosni Mubarak fell.
    Last week as I pushed past families, men blowing vuvuzelas, and candy peddlers, a policeman swaggered past in his white uniform, his belly and chin thrust forward, smiling ever so slightly. A man leapt toward him and brushed his forearm. "Congratulations, ya basha," he said, in an almost feudal show of respect. The cop nodded in acknowledgement without breaking stride. He walked like a man with authority.
    Two and a half years ago, one of the signal triumphs of the revolution was the expulsion not only of Mubarak, but of the detested police. They had strutted all over the rights and dignity of Egyptians. They had tortured with impunity, beaten the innocent and the guilty, detained at a whim, demanded bribes, colluded with common criminals. At the beginning of the uprising, the public had enshrined a magnanimous principle of people power; they won a street war and then declined to lynch the defeated policemen, instead in one instance releasing them to skulk home in their underwear.
    On the night Mubarak fled the presidential palace, a 20-year-old engineering student named Mohammed Ayman murmured with awe and pleasure: "The policemen now speak more softly in the streets. People are waking up. We know our rights."
    This week, the policemen weren't speaking softly at all. They were basking in the adoration of the latest, complicated wave of the Egyptian revolution. They joined the anti-Morsi protests, and stood by while Muslim Brotherhood facilities were attacked. In keeping with their motley history, rule of law still wasn't on the police agenda. President Morsi was swept from power by vast reserves of popular anger at an inept and dictatorial Muslim Brotherhood government. But the June 30 uprising was by no means a purely organic revolt, like January 25; crucially, it was buttressed by the machinery of the old regime and the reactionaries who loved and missed it.
    A few years hence, we'll know for sure whether the July 2 military intervention represented a salutatory alliance between revolutionaries, the military, and the bureaucracy, or whether it marked the dawn of a full restoration of the old order, of Mubarak's state without Mubarak. But revolutionaries and reformists obsessed today with convincing their fellow citizens and the world that Egypt just experienced a second revolution rather than a coup could more wisely concentrate on the omnipresent danger signs, which in the slim best-case scenario might not prove fatal..
    If revolutionaries want to build a new better state, they now must quickly articulate their vision of a pluralistic society of rights and accountable government, free from the tyrannies they have overthrown in short order: those of Mubarak, the military junta that replaced him, and the elected Islamists who ruled as if their slim electoral majority entitled them to absolute, unchecked power. And they must be just as willing to challenge military rulers as they were to toss out Morsi and the Brotherhood.
    * * *
    Egypt's revolution is in danger, as it has been at many turns since it burst forth in January 2011. Its best asset is people power and the creative, resilient activists who have gone to the streets over and over, and against three different kinds of regime so far. Its greatest vulnerabilities are the institutions of Mubarak's authoritarian police state, which have bided their time and are still pushing for a restoration, and the profound strain of reactionary thought that courses through certain powerful sectors of Egyptian society.
    There are vibrant forces in Egypt that want to chart an indigenous, authentic course toward Egypt's own version of pluralistic, transparent, accountable governance. They aren't interested in Western timetables or Western ideas about elections as the path to enlightened rule. It is crucial, if these forces are to succeed, that they see and describe clearly the terrible impasse that led to June 30 and the highly flawed, imperfect military intervention that broke it.
    With a clear-eyed, unsentimental assessment, Egyptian progressives might yet bend the country to their will. A positive long-term outcome requires honesty about the Brotherhood's errors as well as the unseemly alliance struggling to tame Egypt now -- in short, the whole halting attempt at revolution so far.

    The Brotherhood abused Egypt and its electoral prerogative. Most insulting was the constitution that was rammed through in a single overnight session, with only Islamist participation, in an obscene savagery of the political process. There was also the state-sanctioned torture and vigilantism against the anti-Morsi protesters outside the presidential palace in December 2012, committed by Muslim Brotherhood members with the knowledge of presidential advisers. In less dramatic fashion, the Brotherhood scoffed in lawmaking at the idea of consensus or negotiation, insisting again and again that the fact they'd been elected justified any and all actions, including the president's abortive attempt to dissolve judicial oversight, the last remaining check on executive authority after the parliament had been sent packing by the courts.
    "We want a military man to rule us!"
    The Brotherhood's failures exhausted their warrant to govern in the eyes of many Egyptians, prompting the June 30 Tamarod, or "Rebel" revolt, which brought more people to the streets from more strains of the public than any previous Egyptian protest. But while the Muslim Brotherhood's behavior might justify its eviction from power, it doesn't excuse the misbehavior of the opposition, which is now the adjunct to the second interim military authority to set rules for Egypt's political transition after Mubarak. The opposition has yet to settle on a constructive vision. It opposed Islamists, but as a body it hasn't stood in favor of an alternate idea for Egypt. Some reconciliation is necessary with the felool, the remnants of the old regime. But accommodation is one thing; a full embrace another. Worse still, many of the Tamarod supporters actively called for a coup, declaring that military rule would be preferable to that of electoral Islamists. In fact, both have proved corrosive to Egyptian well-being, and will prove so again in the period to come. The latest machinations over the next government, along with the continuing violence between "rebels" and Brothers, underscore the precarious state of Egypt today, a mess out of which only the military is guaranteed to emerge stronger.
    "We are starting from square zero," said Basem Kamel, an activist who helped organize the January 25 uprising, and who joined the organizers of June 30. He conditionally supported this week's military intervention, along with the Egyptian Social Democratic Party, for whom he served as a member of parliament in 2012. But he also condemned the arrest of Muslim Brotherhood leaders this week and the closure of their media. He doesn't want anybody's authoritarianism.
    "This time," he said, "we must get it right."
    Perhaps people power is a good enough argument for those who supported this people's putsch. And the violence of Muslim Brotherhood followers only buttresses the argument that old regime remnants, the felool, might be illiberal fascists, but the Islamists hold a greater danger still. The Tamarod/June 30/Revolution-not-a-coup school seems to believe that their role is simply to expel any leader who doesn't serve Egypt. Their argument appears to be that the people don't need to write the blueprint, but will stand in reserve to veto any regime that misrules. Somebody else needs to come up with an idea for how to extricate Egypt from the practical morass into which it has sunk. Meanwhile, the people will overthrow executive after executive until one does a good job.
    Yet, many ideals that imbued the original January 25 uprising have yet to gain a wider purchase. Revolutionaries rightly mistrusted authority, including that of the military. They rejected state propaganda that held divisions between secular and religious, Christian and Muslim, made Egypt ungovernable except by a heavy hand. They trusted the public, the amorphous "people," to choose its own rules and write its own constitution, so long as everyone had a seat at the table and the strong couldn't silence the weak. They espoused rights and due process for all, including accused criminals and thugs, even for those who had tortured and repressed them. They forswore the paranoia and xenophobia with which the old regime had tarred as foreign agents Egypt's admirable community of human rights defenders, election monitors, and community organizers.
    And now, at a moment of both pride and shame, when the people rose up against an authoritarian if elected Muslim Brotherhood governance and unseated a callous, incompetent president with the help of the military, the revolutionary ideas are drowning in a torrent of reactionary sentiment. "We want a military man to rule us," a middle-aged woman with a bouffant hairdo exulted to me outside the presidential palace.
    Yes, revolutionaries and common folk and apolitical Egyptians took to the streets on June 30, and again later in the week to celebrate Morsi's imprisonment by the military. But they were joined, and perhaps overwhelmed in numbers, by thefelool, the reactionaries. Families of soldiers and policemen strolled among the protesters. Christians and proud members of the "sofa party," who had sat out every previous demonstration of the last two and a half years, trumpeted their support for Mubarak, for his preferred successor, presidential runner up and retired General Ahmed Shafiq, and now, for military rule. Whether the original revolutionaries wanted it or not, their latest revolution has the support of some of their worst, most persistent enemies: the military and the police.
    At the airport on Friday evening, a half-dozen uniformed police officers stood watching the Muslim Brotherhood Supreme Guide's speech, televised on a set mounted at the Coffeeshop Company. The Supreme Guide called for supporters of Morsi to "bring him back bearing him on our necks, sacrifice our souls for him." Within hours, that cry would result in thousands marching to Tahrir Square and engaging in a bloody, deadly and avoidable clash with opponents of the Brotherhood.
    As the Brotherhood leader spoke, the policemen laughed, while others looked on anxiously, mirroring the divisions within Egyptian society. Not everyone hates the Islamists, and not everyone loves the police.
    On TV, the camera panned over the shouting Brotherhood supporters a few miles away, mourning a protester just shot dead. At the airport, an officer with three bars on his shoulder laughed. "Morsi's finished," he said, bringing his heel down and slowly savoring the crushing motion. "In two more days, the Brotherhood will be finished too."
    Beside him a stone-faced man winced.

    The Most Worrying Thing About Egypt's Coup: the Police - Thanassis Cambanis - The Atlantic


    @Charlie: Ich antworte später.

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