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Srebrenica CSI

Erstellt von Reaktionär, 13.12.2008, 01:29 Uhr · 102 Antworten · 4.862 Aufrufe

  1. #51
    Šaban
    Zitat Zitat von mannheimer Beitrag anzeigen
    du bist arm,...

    weil du denkst ein serbisches Leben ist nichts wert.

    Wieso stellst du nicht die Zahl der getöten Juden im Holocaust nicht in Frage ?


    Bei den Serben geht das ja.



    was will ich mit dir also reden?
    Wer sagt das? ich habe serbische freunde während du hingegen keine Kroatische freunde hast. Ich stelle die serbischen Zahlen in frage da die meisten schlicht und einfach übertrieben sind

  2. #52
    Avatar von specialForces

    Registriert seit
    06.10.2008
    Beiträge
    1.759
    Zitat Zitat von Romulus Beitrag anzeigen
    Das erste ist Blödsinn, aber das zweite stimmt?: Hast du alle persönlich gezählt?
    Die serbieschen Opfer sind für dich natürlich nicht relevant, denn wie könnte es denn in eurem friedliebenden Volk solche Verbrecher geben?

    Aha, sehr interessant. Hauptsache du kämpfst dafür, die Zahl der bosnischen Opfer zu verringern.
    Ich will, dass die realen Zahlen ans Licht kommen und nicht die herumfantasiererei der Medien.

    Du verlangst Objektivität? Das kannst du haben. Die international anerkannte Srebrenica-Opfer-Zahl ist für dich Blödsinn, aber die ominösen 3000 toten Serben rund um Srebrenica stimmen zu 100 %. Fick dich!!!
    International annerkannt? Von wem? Der CNN etwa.

    Ach ja, dann wurden über 100 serbische Siedlungen und ihre Einwohner von UFO's entführt?

    Was bringt es dir, wenn in Srebrenica nur 5000 Menschen getötet wurden? Ist die Schuld der Serben dann geringer? Würdest du dich besser fühlen? Du bist ein erbärmliches Stück Scheiße, das Menschenleben nur als Zahl sieht.
    Wenn von deinen international anerkannten 8000, 3000 angeblich Tote auf OSZE Wählerlisten auftauchen, dann ist das für mich mehr als ein Beweis.
    Ich habe in keinem meiner Beiträge das Massaker in irgendeiner Weise befürwortet oder es nicht als Tragödie bezeichnet, die dafür Verantwortlichen gehören allesamt Verurteilt. Aber diese Ständige und sich ewig in die Länge ziehende dämonisierung des serbischen Volkes ist doch lächerlich und macht euch um kein Stück besser.

    Leute wie du bringen mich dazu manche Serben zu hassen.
    Ja aus deiner Sicht hast du bei mir einen cetnikfascho gefunden an dem du deinen Frust auslassen kannst.

  3. #53
    Kimmerian Viking
    ...............

  4. #54
    Kimmerian Viking
    Zitat Zitat von TigerS Beitrag anzeigen
    Traurig sowas . Da sieht man das dass größte Tier der Mensch ist .






    gruß


    man muss zugeben können um zu vertstehen...natürlich gab es auf allen Seiten Opfer aber es war nicht zu übersehen, dass Serbien alle Moslems liquidieren wollte...und das war ein Genozid, so wie die Kroaten im 2 Weltkrieg das selbe mit euch gemacht hatten....da fragt man sich: Wieso mussten die Bosniaken dafür bluten bzw. ausgerottet werden?.......mir tun sie extrem leid die Bosniaken haben mehr gelitten als wir uns vorstellen können...Der Mensch ist nicht das grösste Tier sondern das schlimmste UNGEHEUER das unsere Mutter Erde je erlebt hatte...hoffentlich kann alles aufarbeitet werden und hoffentlich können alle wieder in Frieden leben am Balkan egal welcher Ethnie und welcher Religion man angehört..

    Wir Balkanesen (Ohne Griechenland und Bulgarien) waren ein Mal das grösste Vorbild für Toleranz und Fortschritt für die ganze Welt!!!Wir waren sehr angesehen weil wir Menschen sind mit mehreren Religionausrichtungen,die ohne irgendwelche Probleme zusammenleben konnten und gut miteinander aus^kammen..MFG

  5. #55

    Registriert seit
    13.05.2007
    Beiträge
    18.328
    Zitat Zitat von mannheimer Beitrag anzeigen
    Wieso stellst du nicht die Zahl der getöten Juden im Holocaust nicht in Frage ?
    weil die zahl ziemlich gesichert ist. mann kennt die anzahl der juden vor dem krieg und die zahl nach dem krieg. die differenz sind die opfer des holocaust



    Zitat Zitat von mannheimer Beitrag anzeigen
    Bei den Serben geht das ja.
    nur weil ihr serben die zahl der srebrenica opfer relativiert müssen es ja die anderen auch nicht machen

  6. #56

    Registriert seit
    26.03.2007
    Beiträge
    2.795
    Zitat Zitat von Šaban Beitrag anzeigen
    Wer sagt das? ich habe serbische freunde während du hingegen keine Kroatische freunde hast. Ich stelle die serbischen Zahlen in frage da die meisten schlicht und einfach übertrieben sind
    Gab es Jasenovac ?

    Wieviele Opfer gab es ?

    Welcher Nationalität waren die Täter?

  7. #57
    Šaban
    Zitat Zitat von mannheimer Beitrag anzeigen
    Gab es Jasenovac ?

    Wieviele Opfer gab es ?

    Welcher Nationalität waren die Täter?
    1. Ja gab es

    2. Nach Angaben der Holocaust Encyclopedia des staatlichen United States Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington kamen unter dem Ustascha-Regime von 1941 bis 1945 etwa 100.000 Personen in Jasenovac ums Leben, davon etwa 32.000 Juden, 45.000 bis 52.000 Serben, 8.000 bis 15.000 Roma und 5.000 bis 12.000 Kroaten.

    3. Waren Kroaten

    Will noch was hinzufügen. (Tito war kroate, war er jetzt auch an jasenovac beteiligt?)

    So jetzt fragen an dich

    Gab es KZ' in Serbien

    Wieviele Opfer gab es?

    Wer waren die Täter

  8. #58

    Registriert seit
    26.03.2007
    Beiträge
    2.795
    Zitat Zitat von Šaban Beitrag anzeigen
    1. Ja gab es

    2. Nach Angaben der Holocaust Encyclopedia des staatlichen United States Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington kamen unter dem Ustascha-Regime von 1941 bis 1945 etwa 100.000 Personen in Jasenovac ums Leben, davon etwa 32.000 Juden, 45.000 bis 52.000 Serben, 8.000 bis 15.000 Roma und 5.000 bis 12.000 Kroaten.

    3. Waren Kroaten

    Will noch was hinzufügen. (Tito war kroate, war er jetzt auch an jasenovac beteiligt?)

    So jetzt fragen an dich

    Gab es KZ' in Serbien

    Wieviele Opfer gab es?

    Wer waren die Täter
    Du manipulierst mit Zahlen.

    Auszug aus Wiki.com



    Historical documentation sources

    The documentation from the time of Jasenovac revolves around the different sides in the battle for Yugoslavia: The Germans and Italians on the one hand, and the Partisans on the other. There are also sources originating from the documentation of the Ustase themselves and of the Vatican. These sources are in times considered contemporary because German and Ustase sources tend to exaggerate, but the comparison of all different sources can give a reliable portrayt of the historical truth.
    German generals issued reports of the number of victims as the war progressed.German military commanders gave different figures for the number of Serbs, Jews and others killed on the territory of the Independent State of Croatia. They circulated figures of 400,000 Serbs (Alexander Löhr); 350,000 Serbs (Lothar Rendulic); around 300,000 (Edmund Glaise von Horstenau); in 1943; "600-700,000 until March 1944" (Ernst Fick); 700,000 (Massenbach).Hermann Neubacher calculates:
    "A third must become Catholic, a third must leave the country, and a third must die!" This last point of their program was accomplished. When prominent Ustasha leaders claimed that they slaughtered a million Serbs (including babies, children, women and the elderly), that is, in my opinion, a boastful exaggeration. On the basis of the reports submitted to me, I believe that the number of defenseless victims slaughtered to be three quarters of a million. (Neubacher, Dr. Hermann. Special Assignment in the Southeast, p. 18-30.)
    Italian generals, who were more overwhelmed by the atrocious Ustase slaughter, also reported of similar figures to their commanders.[132] The Vatican's sources also speak of similar figures, E.g. of 350,000 Serbs slaughtered by the end of 1942 (Eugen Tisserant[133])and "over 500,000 people" at all (Godfried Danneels.[134])

    The Ustase themselves gave more exaggerated assuptions of the number of people they killed. Vjekoslav "Maks" Luburić, commander-in-chief of all the Croatian camps, announced the great "efficiency" of the Jasenovac camp at a ceremony on October 9, 1942 (keep in mind that Jasenovac operated until 1945). During the banquet which followed, he reported with pride: "We have slaughtered here at Jasenovac more people than the Ottoman Empire was able to do during its occupation of Europe.".[135] Although the account may appear somewhat exgratted, its veracity can be found in several other Ustase accounts: a circular of the Ustase general headquarters that reads: "the concentration and labor camp in Jasenovac can receive an unlimited number of internees"[136]). In the same spirit, Miroslav Filipovic-Majstorovic, once captured by Yugoslav forces, addmitted, in attempt to somewhat minimize the rate of crimes committed in Jasenovac (e.g. Miroslav claimed to have personally killed 100 people, extremlly understated[137]), that during his three months of administration, 20,000 to 30,000 people died,[138] whereas in other sources it is displayed as 40,000.[139][140]
    A report of the National Committee of Croatia for the investigation of the crimes of the occupation forces and their collaborators, dated November 15, 1945, which was commissioned by the new government of Yugoslavia under Tito, stated that 500,000-600,000 people were killed at the Jasenovac complex. These estimates were supported by the government of Yugoslavia while it existed.[citation needed] These figures were cited by researcher Israel Gutman in the Encyclopedia of the Holocaust, by the Simon Wiesenthal Center and others. Proponents of these numbers were subsequently accused of artificially inflating them for purpose of obtaining war reparations. All in all, The state-commission's report appears to be authentic, since it matches all other sources regarding to the atrocities committed in Jasenovac. Nevertheless, if the numbers were inflated, the gap was probably not substantially large. The state's total war casualties of 1,700,000 as presented by Yugoslavia at the Paris Peace Treaties, were produced by a math student, Vladeta Vučković, at the Federal Bureau of Statistics.[141] He later admitted that his estimates included demographic losses (i.e. also factoring in the estimated population increase), while actual losses would have been significantly less.[141]

  9. #59
    Šaban
    Zitat Zitat von mannheimer Beitrag anzeigen
    Du manipulierst mit Zahlen.

    Auszug aus Wiki.com



    Historical documentation sources

    The documentation from the time of Jasenovac revolves around the different sides in the battle for Yugoslavia: The Germans and Italians on the one hand, and the Partisans on the other. There are also sources originating from the documentation of the Ustase themselves and of the Vatican. These sources are in times considered contemporary because German and Ustase sources tend to exaggerate, but the comparison of all different sources can give a reliable portrayt of the historical truth.
    German generals issued reports of the number of victims as the war progressed.German military commanders gave different figures for the number of Serbs, Jews and others killed on the territory of the Independent State of Croatia. They circulated figures of 400,000 Serbs (Alexander Löhr); 350,000 Serbs (Lothar Rendulic); around 300,000 (Edmund Glaise von Horstenau); in 1943; "600-700,000 until March 1944" (Ernst Fick); 700,000 (Massenbach).Hermann Neubacher calculates:
    "A third must become Catholic, a third must leave the country, and a third must die!" This last point of their program was accomplished. When prominent Ustasha leaders claimed that they slaughtered a million Serbs (including babies, children, women and the elderly), that is, in my opinion, a boastful exaggeration. On the basis of the reports submitted to me, I believe that the number of defenseless victims slaughtered to be three quarters of a million. (Neubacher, Dr. Hermann. Special Assignment in the Southeast, p. 18-30.)
    Italian generals, who were more overwhelmed by the atrocious Ustase slaughter, also reported of similar figures to their commanders.[132] The Vatican's sources also speak of similar figures, E.g. of 350,000 Serbs slaughtered by the end of 1942 (Eugen Tisserant[133])and "over 500,000 people" at all (Godfried Danneels.[134])

    The Ustase themselves gave more exaggerated assuptions of the number of people they killed. Vjekoslav "Maks" Luburić, commander-in-chief of all the Croatian camps, announced the great "efficiency" of the Jasenovac camp at a ceremony on October 9, 1942 (keep in mind that Jasenovac operated until 1945). During the banquet which followed, he reported with pride: "We have slaughtered here at Jasenovac more people than the Ottoman Empire was able to do during its occupation of Europe.".[135] Although the account may appear somewhat exgratted, its veracity can be found in several other Ustase accounts: a circular of the Ustase general headquarters that reads: "the concentration and labor camp in Jasenovac can receive an unlimited number of internees"[136]). In the same spirit, Miroslav Filipovic-Majstorovic, once captured by Yugoslav forces, addmitted, in attempt to somewhat minimize the rate of crimes committed in Jasenovac (e.g. Miroslav claimed to have personally killed 100 people, extremlly understated[137]), that during his three months of administration, 20,000 to 30,000 people died,[138] whereas in other sources it is displayed as 40,000.[139][140]
    A report of the National Committee of Croatia for the investigation of the crimes of the occupation forces and their collaborators, dated November 15, 1945, which was commissioned by the new government of Yugoslavia under Tito, stated that 500,000-600,000 people were killed at the Jasenovac complex. These estimates were supported by the government of Yugoslavia while it existed.[citation needed] These figures were cited by researcher Israel Gutman in the Encyclopedia of the Holocaust, by the Simon Wiesenthal Center and others. Proponents of these numbers were subsequently accused of artificially inflating them for purpose of obtaining war reparations. All in all, The state-commission's report appears to be authentic, since it matches all other sources regarding to the atrocities committed in Jasenovac. Nevertheless, if the numbers were inflated, the gap was probably not substantially large. The state's total war casualties of 1,700,000 as presented by Yugoslavia at the Paris Peace Treaties, were produced by a math student, Vladeta Vučković, at the Federal Bureau of Statistics.[141] He later admitted that his estimates included demographic losses (i.e. also factoring in the estimated population increase), while actual losses would have been significantly less.[141]
    Manipulieren? Ich habs wortwörtlich von Wikipedia kopiert.

    Und jetzt beantworte meine Fragen

  10. #60

    Registriert seit
    13.05.2007
    Beiträge
    18.328
    Zitat Zitat von mannheimer Beitrag anzeigen
    Du manipulierst mit Zahlen.

    Auszug aus Wiki.com



    Historical documentation sources

    The documentation from the time of Jasenovac revolves around the different sides in the battle for Yugoslavia: The Germans and Italians on the one hand, and the Partisans on the other. There are also sources originating from the documentation of the Ustase themselves and of the Vatican. These sources are in times considered contemporary because German and Ustase sources tend to exaggerate, but the comparison of all different sources can give a reliable portrayt of the historical truth.
    German generals issued reports of the number of victims as the war progressed.German military commanders gave different figures for the number of Serbs, Jews and others killed on the territory of the Independent State of Croatia. They circulated figures of 400,000 Serbs (Alexander Löhr); 350,000 Serbs (Lothar Rendulic); around 300,000 (Edmund Glaise von Horstenau); in 1943; "600-700,000 until March 1944" (Ernst Fick); 700,000 (Massenbach).Hermann Neubacher calculates:
    "A third must become Catholic, a third must leave the country, and a third must die!" This last point of their program was accomplished. When prominent Ustasha leaders claimed that they slaughtered a million Serbs (including babies, children, women and the elderly), that is, in my opinion, a boastful exaggeration. On the basis of the reports submitted to me, I believe that the number of defenseless victims slaughtered to be three quarters of a million. (Neubacher, Dr. Hermann. Special Assignment in the Southeast, p. 18-30.)
    Italian generals, who were more overwhelmed by the atrocious Ustase slaughter, also reported of similar figures to their commanders.[132] The Vatican's sources also speak of similar figures, E.g. of 350,000 Serbs slaughtered by the end of 1942 (Eugen Tisserant[133])and "over 500,000 people" at all (Godfried Danneels.[134])

    The Ustase themselves gave more exaggerated assuptions of the number of people they killed. Vjekoslav "Maks" Luburić, commander-in-chief of all the Croatian camps, announced the great "efficiency" of the Jasenovac camp at a ceremony on October 9, 1942 (keep in mind that Jasenovac operated until 1945). During the banquet which followed, he reported with pride: "We have slaughtered here at Jasenovac more people than the Ottoman Empire was able to do during its occupation of Europe.".[135] Although the account may appear somewhat exgratted, its veracity can be found in several other Ustase accounts: a circular of the Ustase general headquarters that reads: "the concentration and labor camp in Jasenovac can receive an unlimited number of internees"[136]). In the same spirit, Miroslav Filipovic-Majstorovic, once captured by Yugoslav forces, addmitted, in attempt to somewhat minimize the rate of crimes committed in Jasenovac (e.g. Miroslav claimed to have personally killed 100 people, extremlly understated[137]), that during his three months of administration, 20,000 to 30,000 people died,[138] whereas in other sources it is displayed as 40,000.[139][140]
    A report of the National Committee of Croatia for the investigation of the crimes of the occupation forces and their collaborators, dated November 15, 1945, which was commissioned by the new government of Yugoslavia under Tito, stated that 500,000-600,000 people were killed at the Jasenovac complex. These estimates were supported by the government of Yugoslavia while it existed.[citation needed] These figures were cited by researcher Israel Gutman in the Encyclopedia of the Holocaust, by the Simon Wiesenthal Center and others. Proponents of these numbers were subsequently accused of artificially inflating them for purpose of obtaining war reparations. All in all, The state-commission's report appears to be authentic, since it matches all other sources regarding to the atrocities committed in Jasenovac. Nevertheless, if the numbers were inflated, the gap was probably not substantially large. The state's total war casualties of 1,700,000 as presented by Yugoslavia at the Paris Peace Treaties, were produced by a math student, Vladeta Vučković, at the Federal Bureau of Statistics.[141] He later admitted that his estimates included demographic losses (i.e. also factoring in the estimated population increase), while actual losses would have been significantly less.[141]

    möchte bloß wissen welcher spast diesen thread in den mülleimer geworfen hat:

    http://www.balkanforum.info/f17/komm...c-leier-33140/

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