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Endlosschleife: Mazedonier vs. Griechen

Erstellt von Mudi, 09.12.2011, 08:01 Uhr · 13.498 Antworten · 461.462 Aufrufe

  1. #10481
    Avatar von Poliorketes

    Registriert seit
    30.12.2012
    Beiträge
    6.392
    Zitat Zitat von Zoran Beitrag anzeigen
    Ich hab dir gar nichts zu geben, du behauptest hier "alle Universitäten würde bla, bla".





    Bitte Behauptung Beweisen.

    Danke und Pozdrav
    Ich weis das das lächerlich ist das du von mir einen beweis willst das alle Universitäten der Welt den Hellenismus lehren den Alexander verbreitet hat, aber wie wers den wen wir mit 347 Historiker und Archäologen aus der ganzen Welt anfangen die sagen das die Antiken Makedonen zur Griechischen Geschichte gehören und die bewohner FYROMS nichts mit den Antiken Makedonen gemeinsam haben.

    "Stephen G. Miller

    347 Unterschriften von Koryphäen der Historik und Archäologie haben sich bis Heute unter dem Brief von Stephen G.Miller, an das Staatsoberhaupt der Vereinigten Staaten, mit dem Apell die irreführende und historisch falsche Anerkennung der ehemaligen jugoslawischen Republik (FYROM) als „Republic of Macedonia“ zu überdenken und somit der Usurpation von griechischer Geschichte entgegenzuwirken, eingefunden."

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    @Zoran hier ist der Brief

    The Honorable Barack Obama
    President, United States of AmericaWhite House1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, NWWashington, DC 20500Dear President Obama,We, the undersigned scholars of Graeco-Roman antiquity, respectfully request that you intervene to clean up some of the historical debris left in southeast Europe by the previous U.S. administration.On November 4, 2004, two days after the re-election of President George W. Bush, his administration unilaterally recognized the “Republic of Macedonia.” This action not only abrogated geographic and historic fact, but it also has unleashed a dangerous epidemic of historical revisionism, of which the most obvious symptom is the misappropriation by the government in Skopje of the most famous of Macedonians, Alexander the Great.We believe that this silliness has gone too far, and that the U.S.A. has no business in supporting the subversion of history. Let us review facts. (The documentation for these facts [here in boldface] can be found attached and at: http://macedonia-evidence.org/documentation.html)The land in question, with its modern capital at Skopje, was called Paionia in antiquity. Mts. Barnous and Orbelos (which form today the northern limits of Greece) provide a natural barrier that separated, and separates, Macedonia from its northern neighbor. The only real connection is along the Axios/Vardar River and even this valley “does not form a line of communication because it is divided by gorges.”While it is true that the Paionians were subdued by Philip II, father of Alexander, in 358 B.C. they were not Macedonians and did not live in Macedonia. Likewise, for example, the Egyptians, who were subdued by Alexander, may have been ruled by Macedonians, including the famous Cleopatra, but they were never Macedonians themselves, and Egypt was never called Macedonia.Rather, Macedonia and Macedonian Greeks have been located for at least 2,500 years just where the modern Greek province of Macedonia is. Exactly this same relationship is true for Attica and Athenian Greeks, Argos and Argive Greeks, Corinth and Corinthian Greeks, etc.We do not understand how the modern inhabitants of ancient Paionia, who speak Slavic – a language introduced into the Balkans about a millennium after the death of Alexander – can claim him as their national hero. Alexander the Great was thoroughly and indisputably Greek. His great-great-great grandfather, Alexander I, competed in the Olympic Games where participation was limited to Greeks.Even before Alexander I, the Macedonians traced their ancestry to Argos, and many of their kings used the head of Herakles – the quintessential Greek hero – on their coins.Euripides – who died and was buried in Macedonia– wrote his play Archelaos in honor of the great-uncle of Alexander, and in Greek. While in Macedonia, Euripides also wrote the Bacchai, again in Greek. Presumably the Macedonian audience could understand what he wrote and what they heard.Alexander’s father, Philip, won several equestrian victories at Olympia and Delphi, the two most Hellenic of all the sanctuaries in ancient Greece where non-Greeks were not allowed to compete. Even more significantly, Philip was appointed to conduct the Pythian Games at Delphi in 346 B.C. In other words, Alexander the Great’s father and his ancestors were thoroughly Greek. Greek was the language used by Demosthenes and his delegation from Athens when they paid visits to Philip, also in 346 B.C. Another northern Greek, Aristotle, went off to study for nearly 20 years in the Academy of Plato. Aristotle subsequently returned to Macedonia and became the tutor of Alexander III. They used Greek in their classroom which can still be seen near Naoussa in Macedonia.
    Alexander carried with him throughout his conquests Aristotle’s edition of Homer’s Iliad. Alexander also spread Greek language and culture throughout his empire, founding cities and establishing centers of learning. Hence inscriptions concerning such typical Greek institutions as the gymnasium are found as far away as Afghanistan. They are all written in Greek.The questions follow: Why was Greek the lingua franca all over Alexander’s empire if he was a “Macedonian”? Why was the New Testament, for example, written in Greek?The answers are clear: Alexander the Great was Greek, not Slavic, and Slavs and their language were nowhere near Alexander or his homeland until 1000 years later. This brings us back to the geographic area known in antiquity as Paionia. Why would the people who live there now call themselves Macedonians and their land Macedonia? Why would they abduct a completely Greek figure and make him their national hero?The ancient Paionians may or may not have been Greek, but they certainly became Greekish, and they were never Slavs. They were also not Macedonians. Ancient Paionia was a part of the Macedonian Empire. So were Ionia and Syria and Palestine and Egypt and Mesopotamia and Babylonia and Bactria and many more. They may thus have become “Macedonian” temporarily, but none was ever “Macedonia”. The theft of Philip and Alexander by a land that was never Macedonia cannot be justified.The traditions of ancient Paionia could be adopted by the current residents of that geographical area with considerable justification. But the extension of the geographic term “Macedonia” to cover southern Yugoslavia cannot. Even in the late 19th century, this misuse implied unhealthy territorial aspirations.The same motivation is to be seen in school maps that show the pseudo-greater Macedonia, stretching from Skopje to Mt. Olympus and labeled in Slavic. The same map and its claims are in calendars, bumper stickers, bank notes, etc., that have been circulating in the new state ever since it declared its independence from Yugoslavia in 1991. Why would a poor land-locked new state attempt such historical nonsense? Why would it brazenly mock and provoke its neighbor?However one might like to characterize such behavior, it is clearly not a force for historical accuracy, nor for stability in the Balkans. It is sad that the United States of America has abetted and encouraged such behavior.We call upon you, Mr. President, to help – in whatever ways you deem appropriate – the government in Skopje to understand that it cannot build a national identity at the expense of historic truth. Our common international society cannot survive when history is ignored, much less when history is fabricated.Sincerely,

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    @Zoran und hier sind die unterschrieften der Historiker und Archäologen aus aller Welt mit titel Universität und dem Land wo sie herkommen.


    NAME TITLE INSTITUTION
    Harry C. Avery, Professor of Classics, University of Pittsburgh (USA)
    Dr. Dirk Backendorf. Akademie der Wissenschaften und der Literatur Mainz (Germany)
    Anagnostis P. Agelarakis, Professor of Anthropology, Adelphi University (USA)
    Ioannis M. Akamatis, Professor of Classical Archaeology, University of Thessaloniki (Greece)
    June W. Allison, Professor Emerita, Department of Greek and Latin, The Ohio State University (USA)
    Georgios Anagnostopoulos, Professor of Philosophy, University of California-San Diego (USA)
    Mariana Anagnostopoulos, Assistant Professor of Philosophy, California State University, Fresno (USA)
    Ronnie Ancona, Professor of Classics, Hunter College and The Graduate Center, CUNY (USA)
    John P. Anton, Distinguished Professor of Greek Philosophy and Culture University of South Florida (USA)
    Dr. Norman George Ashton, Senior Honorary Research Fellow, The University of Western Australia (Australia)
    Lucia Athanassaki, Associate Professor of Classical Philology, University of Crete (Greece)
    Effie F. Athanassopoulos, Associate Professor Anthropology and Classics, University of Nebraska-Lincoln (USA)
    Harry C. Avery, Professor of Classics, University of Pittsburgh (USA)
    Elizabeth C. Banks, Associate Professor of Classics (ret.), University of Kansas (USA)
    Leonidas Bargeliotes, Emeritus Professor of Philosophy, University of Athens, President of the Olympic Center for Philosophy and Culture (Greece)
    Alice Bencivenni, Ricercatore di Storia Greca, Universita di Bologna (Italy)
    David L. Berkey, Assistant Professor of History, California State University, Fresno (USA)
    Luigi Beschi, professore emerito di Archeologia Classica, Universita di Firenze (Italy)
    Josine H. Blok, professor of Ancient History and Classical Civilization, Utrecht University (The Netherlands)
    Alan Boegehold, Emeritus Professor of Classics, Brown University (USA)
    Efrosyni Boutsikas, Lecturer of Classical Archaeology, University of Kent (UK)
    Ewen Bowie, Emeritus Fellow, Corpus Christi College, Oxford (UK)
    Keith Bradley, Eli J. and Helen Shaheen Professor of Classics, Concurrent Professor of History, University of Notre Dame (USA)
    Kostas Buraselis, Professor of Ancient History, University of Athens (Greece)
    Stanley M. Burstein, Professor Emeritus, California State University, Los Angeles (USA)
    Francis Cairns, Professor of Classical Languages, The Florida State University (USA)
    John McK. Camp II, Agora Excavations and Professor of Archaeology, ASCSA, Athens (Greece)
    David A. Campbell, Emeritus Professor of Classics. University of Victoria, B.C. (Canada)
    Paul Cartledge, A.G. Leventis Professor of Greek Culture, University of Cambridge (UK)
    Paavo Castren, Professor of Classical Philology Emeritus, University of Helsinki (Finland)
    William Cavanagh, Professor of Aegean Prehistory, University of Nottingham (UK)
    Angelos Chaniotis, Professor, Senior Research Fellow, All Souls College, Oxford (UK)
    Paul Christesen, Professor of Ancient Greek History, Dartmouth College (USA)
    James J. Clauss, Professor of Classics, University of Washington (USA)
    Ada Cohen, Associate Professor of Art History, Dartmouth College (USA)
    Randall M. Colaizzi, Lecturer in Classical Studies, University of Massachusetts-Boston (USA)
    Kathleen M. Coleman, Professor of Latin, Harvard University (USA)
    Rev. Dr. Demetrios J Constantelos, Charles Cooper Townsend Professor of Ancient and Byzantine history, Emeritus; Distinguished Research Scholar in Residence at the Richard Stockton College of New Jersey (USA)
    Michael B. Cosmopoulos, Ph.D., Professor and Endowed Chair in Greek Archaeology, University of Missouri-St. Louis (USA)
    Carole L. Crumley, PhD., Professor of European Archaeology, University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill (USA)
    Kevin F. Daly, Assistant Professor of Classics, Bucknell University (USA)
    Joseph W. Day, Professor of Classics, Wabash College (USA)
    Francois de Callatay, Professor of Monetary and Financial history of the Greek world, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes (Paris/Sorbonne) and Professor of Financial history of the Greco-Roman world, Universite libre de Bruxelles (France and Brussels)
    Wolfgang Decker, Professor emeritus of sport history, Deutsche Sporthochschule, Koln (Germany)
    Luc Deitz, Ausserplanmassiger Professor of Mediaeval and Renaissance Latin, University of Trier (Germany), and Curator of manuscripts and rare books, National Library of Luxembourg (Luxembourg)
    Charalambos Dendrinos, Lecturer in Byzantine Literature and Greek Palaeography, Acting Director, The Hellenic Institute, Royal Holloway, University of London (UK)
    Michael Dewar, Professor of Classics, University of Toronto (Canada)
    John D. Dillery, Associate Professor of Classics, University of Virginia (USA
    John Dillon, Emeritus Professor of Greek, Trinity College Dublin (Ireland)
    Sheila Dillon, Associate Professor, Depts. of Art, Art History & Visual Studies and Classical Studies, Duke University (USA)
    Michael D. Dixon, Associate Professor of History, University of Southern Indiana (USA)
    Douglas Domingo-Foraste, Professor of Classics, California State University, Long Beach (USA)
    Myrto Dragona-Monachou, Professor emerita of Philosophy, University of Athens (Greece)
    Stella Drougou, Professor of Classical Archaeology, Aristotle University of Thessaloniki (Greece)
    Pierre Ducrey, professeur honoraire, Universite de Lausanne (Switzerland)
    John Duffy, Professor, Department of the Classics, Harvard University (USA)
    Roger Dunkle, Professor of Classics Emeritus, Brooklyn College, City University of New York (USA)
    Michael M. Eisman, Associate Professor Ancient History and Classical Archaeology, Department of History, Temple University (USA)
    Mostafa El-Abbadi, Professor Emeritus, University of Alexandria (Egypt)
    R. Malcolm Errington, Professor fur Alte Geschichte (Emeritus) Philipps- Universitat, Marburg (Germany)
    Christos C. Evangeliou, Professor of Ancient Hellenic Philosophy, Towson University, Maryland, Honorary President of International Association for Greek Philosophy (USA)
    Panagiotis Faklaris, Assistant Professor of Classical Archaeology, Aristotle University of Thessaloniki (Greece)
    Denis Feeney, Giger Professor of Latin, Princeton University (USA)
    Michael Ferejohn, Associate Professor of Ancient Philosophy, Duke University (USA)
    Kleopatra Ferla, Ph.D. in Ancient History, Head of Research and Management of Cultural Information, Foundation of the Hellenic World, Athens (Greece)
    Elizabeth A. Fisher, Professor of Classics and Art History, Randolph-Macon College (USA)
    Nick Fisher, Professor of Ancient History, Cardiff University (UK)
    R. Leon Fitts, Asbury J Clarke Professor of Classical Studies, Emeritus, FSA, Scot., Dickinson Colllege (USA)
    John M. Fossey FRSC, FSA, Emeritus Professor of Art History (and Archaeology), McGill Univertsity, Montreal, and Curator of Archaeology, Montreal Museum of Fine Arts (Canada)
    Dr. Athanasios Fotiou, Adjunct Professor, College of the Humanities, Greek and Roman Studies, Carleton University, Ottawa (Canada)
    Robin Lane Fox, University Reader in Ancient History, New College, Oxford (UK)
    Dr. Lee Fratantuono, William Francis Whitlock Professor of Latin, Ohio Wesleyan University (USA)
    Stavros Frangoulidis, Associate Professor of Latin. Aristotelian University of Thessaloniki (Greece)
    William K. Freiert, Professor of Classics and Hanson-Peterson Chair of Liberal Studies, Gustavus Adolphus College (USA)
    Rainer Friedrich, Professor of Classics Emeritus, Dalhousie University, Halifax, N.S. (Canada)
    Heide Froning, Professor of Classical Archaeology, University of Marburg (Germany)
    Peter Funke, Professor of Ancient History, University of Muenster (Germany)
    Traianos Gagos, Professor of Greek and Papyrology, University of Michigan (USA)
    Karl Galinsky, Cailloux Centennial Professor of Classics, University of Texas, Austin (USA)
    Robert Garland, Roy D. and Margaret B. Wooster Professor of the Classics, Colgate University, Hamilton NY (USA)
    Hans-Joachim Gehrke, Prof. Dr., President of the German Archaeological Institute Berlin (Germany)
    Dr. Ioannis Georganas, Researcher, Department of History and Archaeology, Foundation of the Hellenic World (Greece)
    Douglas E. Gerber, Professor Emeritus of Classical Studies, University of Western Ontario (Canada)
    Dr. Andre Gerolymatos, Chair and Professor of Hellenic Studies, Simon Fraser University (Canada)
    Stephen L. Glass, John A. McCarthy Professor of Classics & Classical Archaeology, Pitzer College: The Claremont Colleges (USA)
    Hans R. Goette, Professor of Classical Archaeology, University of Giessen (Germany); German Archaeological Institute, Berlin (Germany)
    Sander M. Goldberg, Professor of Classics, UCLA (USA)
    Mark Golden, Professor, Department of Classics, University of Winnipeg (Canada)
    Ellen Greene, Joseph Paxton Presidential Professor of Classics, University of Oklahoma (USA)
    Robert Gregg, Teresa Moore Professor of Religious Studies, Emeritus, Director, The Abbasi Program in Islamic Studies, Stanford University (USA)
    Frederick T. Griffiths, Professor of Classics, Amherst College (USA)
    Dr. Peter Grossmann, Member emeritus, German Archaeological Institute, Cairo (Egypt)
    Erich S. Gruen, Gladys Rehard Wood Professor of History and Classics, Emeritus, University of California, Berkeley (USA)
    Martha Habash, Associate Professor of Classics, Creighton University (USA)
    Christian Habicht, Professor of Ancient History, Emeritus, Institute for Advanced Study, Princeton (USA)
    Donald C. Haggis, Nicholas A. Cassas Term Professor of Greek Studies, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill (USA)
    Judith P. Hallett, Professor of Classics, University of Maryland, College Park, MD (USA)
    Kim Hartswick, Academic Director, CUNY Baccalaureate for Unique and Interdisciplinary Studies, New York City (USA)
    Prof. Paul B. Harvey, Jr. Head, Department of Classics and Ancient Mediterranean Studies, The Pennsylvania State University (USA)
    Eleni Hasaki, Associate Professor of Classical Archaeology, University of Arizona (USA)
    Rosalia Hatzilambrou, Ph.D., Researcher, Academy of Athens (Greece)
    Miltiades B. Hatzopoulos, Director, Research Centre for Greek and Roman Antiquity, National Research Foundation, Athens (Greece)
    Stephan Heilen, Associate Professor of Classics, University of Illinois at Urbana- Champaign (USA)
    Wolf-Dieter Heilmeyer, Prof. Dr., Freie Universitat Berlin und Antikensammlung der Staatlichen Museen zu Berlin (Germany)
    Pontus Hellstrom, Professor of Classical archaeology and ancient history, Uppsala University (Sweden)
    Steven W. Hirsch, Associate Professor of Classics and History, Tufts University (USA)
    Karl-J. Holkeskamp, Professor of Ancient History, University of Cologne (Germany)
    Frank L. Holt, Professor of Ancient History, University of Houston (USA)
    Dan Hooley, Professor of Classics, University of Missouri (USA)
    Meredith C. Hoppin, Gagliardi Professor of Classical Languages, Williams College, Williamstown, MA (USA)
    Caroline M. Houser, Professor of Art History Emerita, Smith College (USA) and Affiliated Professor, University of Washington (USA)
    Professor Carl Huffman, Department of Classics, DePauw University (USA)
    John Humphrey, Professor of Greek and Roman Studies, University of Calgary (Canada)
    Frosen Jaakko, Professor of Greek philology, University of Helsinki (Finland)
    Dr Thomas Johansen, Reader in Ancient Philosophy, University of Oxford (UK)
    Vincent Jolivet, Archaeologist CNRS, Paris [French School Rome] (Italy)
    Georgia Kafka, Visiting Professor of Modern Greek Language, Literature and History, University of New Brunswick (Canada)
    Mika Kajava, Professor of Greek Language and Literature; Head of the Department of Classical Studies, University of Helsinki (Finland)
    Anthony Kaldellis, Professor of Greek and Latin, The Ohio State University (USA)
    Eleni Kalokairinou, Assistant Professor of Philosophy, Secretary of the Olympic Center of Philosophy and Culture (Cyprus)
    Lilian Karali, Professor of Prehistoric and Environmental Archaeology, University of Athens (Greece)
    Andromache Karanika, Assistant Professor of Classics, University of California, Irvine (USA)
    Robert A. Kaster, Professor of Classics and Kennedy Foundation Professor of Latin, Princeton University (USA)
    Dr. Athena Kavoulaki, Lecturer, Department of Philology, University of Crete, Rethymnon (Greece)
    Vassiliki Kekela, Adjunct Professor of Greek Studies, Classics Department, Hunter College, City University of New York (USA)
    John F. Kenfield, Associate Professor, Department of Art History, Rutgers University (USA)
    Dietmar Kienast, Professor Emeritus of Ancient History, University of Duesseldorf (Germany)
    Karl Kilinski II, University Distinguished Teaching Professor, Southern Methodist University (USA)
    Dr. Florian Knauss, associate director, Staatliche Antikensammlungen und Glyptothek Muenchen (Germany)
    Denis Knoepfler, Professor of Greek Epigraphy and History, College de France (Paris)
    Ortwin Knorr, Associate Professor of Classics, Willamette University (USA)
    Robert B. Koehl, Professor of Archaeology, Department of Classical and Oriental Studies Hunter College, City University of New York (USA)
    Thomas Koentges, Visiting lecturer, Ancient History, University of Leipzig (Germany)
    Georgia Kokkorou-Alevras, Professor of Classical Archaeology, University of Athens (Greece)
    Ann Olga Koloski-Ostrow, Associate Professor and Chair, Department of Classical Studies, Brandeis University (USA)
    Eric J. Kondratieff, Assistant Professor of Classics and Ancient History, Department of Greek & Roman Classics, Temple University (USA)
    Dr Eleni Kornarou, Visiting Lecturer of Ancient Greek Literature, Dept. of Classic and Philosophy, University of Cyprus (Cyprus)
    Haritini Kotsidu, Apl. Prof. Dr. fur Klassische Archaologie, Goethe-Universitat, Frankfurt/M. (Germany)
    Lambrini Koutoussaki, Dr., Lecturer of Classical Archaeology, University of Zurich (Switzerland)
    David Kovacs, Hugh H. Obear Professor of Classics, University of Virginia (USA)
    Prof. Dr. Ulla Kreilinger, Institut fur Klassische Archaologie, Universtitat Erlangen (Germany)
    Dr. Christos Kremmydas, Lecturer in Ancient Greek History, Royal Holloway, University of London (UK)
    Peter Krentz, W. R. Grey Professor of Classics and History, Davidson College (USA)
    Friedrich Krinzinger, Professor of Classical Archaeology Emeritus, University of Vienna (Austria)
    Michael Kumpf, Professor of Classics, Valparaiso University (USA)
    Donald G. Kyle, Professor of History, University of Texas at Arlington (USA)
    Prof. Dr. h.c. Helmut Kyrieleis, former president of the German Archaeological Institute, Berlin (Germany)
    Margaret L. Laird, Assistant Professor, Roman art and archaeology, University of Washington (USA)
    Gerald V. Lalonde, Benedict Professor of Classics, Grinnell College (USA)
    Steven Lattimore, Professor Emeritus of Classics, University of California, Los Angeles (USA)
    Francis M. Lazarus, President, University of Dallas (USA)
    Mary R. Lefkowitz, Andrew W. Mellon Professor in the Humanities, Emerita Wellesley College (USA)
    Irene S. Lemos FSA, Professor in Classical Archaeology,, S.Ioannou Centre for Classical and Byzantine Studies, Oxford University (UK)
    Ioannes G. Leontiades, Assistant Professor of Byzantine History, Aristotle University of Thessalonike (Greece)
    Iphigeneia Leventi, Assistant Professor of Classical Archaeology, University of Thessaly (Greece)
    Daniel B. Levine, Professor of Classical Studies, University of Arkansas (USA)
    Christina Leypold, Dr. phil., Archaeological Institute, University of Zurich (Switzerland)
    Vayos Liapis, Associate Professor of Greek, Centre d’Etudes Classiques & Departement de Philosophie, Universite de Montreal (Canada)
    Hugh Lloyd-Jones, Professor of Greek Emeritus, University of Oxford (UK)
    Yannis Lolos, Assistant Professor, History, Archaeology, and Anthropology, University of Thessaly (Greece)
    Stanley Lombardo, Professor of Classics, University of Kansas (USA)
    Anthony Long, Professor of Classics and Irving G. Stone Professor of Literature, University of California, Berkeley (USA)
    Julia Lougovaya, Assistant Professor, Department of Classics, Columbia University (USA)
    Dr. John Ma, Lecturer in Ancient History, Oxford University and Tutorial Fellow in Ancient History, Corpus Christi College, Oxford (UK)
    A.D. Macro, Hobart Professor of Classical Languages emeritus, Trinity College (USA)
    John Magee, Professor, Department of Classics, Director, Centre for Medieval Studies, University of Toronto (Canada)
    Dr. Christofilis Maggidis, Associate Professor of Archaeology, Dickinson College (USA)
    Chryssa Maltezou, Professor emeritus, University of Athens, Director of the Hellenic Institute of Byzantine and Postbyzantine Studies in Venice (Italy)
    Jeannette Marchand, Assistant Professor of Classics, Wright State University, Dayton, Ohio (USA)
    Evangeline Markou, Adjunct Lecturer in Greek History, Open University of Cyprus (Cyprus)
    Anna Marmodoro, Faculty of Philosophy, University of Oxford (UK)
    Richard P. Martin, Antony and Isabelle Raubitschek Professor in Classics, Stanford University (USA)
    Maria Mavroudi, Professor of Byzantine History, University of California, Berkeley (USA)
    Jody Maxmin, Associate Professor, Dept. of Art & Art History, Stanford University (USA)
    Alexander Mazarakis-Ainian, Professor of Classical Archaeology, University of Thessaly (Greece)
    James R. McCredie, Sherman Fairchild Professor emeritus; Director, Excavations in Samothrace Institute of Fine Arts, New York University (USA)
    Brian McGing M.A., Ph.D., F.T.C.D., M.R.I.A., Regius Professor of Greek, Trinity College Dublin (Ireland)
    James C. McKeown, Professor of Classics, University of Wisconsin-Madison (USA)
    Richard McKirahan, Edwin Clarence Norton of Classics and Professor of Philosophy, Pitzer College: The Claremont Colleges (USA)
    Robert A. Mechikoff, Professor and Life Member of the International Society of Olympic Historians, San Diego State University (USA)
    Andreas Mehl, Professor of Ancient History, Universitaet Halle-Wittenberg (Germany)
    John Richard Melville-Jones, Winthrop Professor, Classics and Ancient History, University of Western Australia (Australia)
    Marion Meyer, Professor of Classical Archaeology, University of Vienna (Austria)
    Dr. Aristotle Michopoulos, Professor & Chair, Greek Studies Dept., Hellenic College (Brookline, MA, USA)
    Harald Mielsch, Professor of Classical Archeology, University of Bonn (Germany)
    Stephen G. Miller, Professor of Classical Archaeology Emeritus, University of California, Berkeley (USA)
    Lynette G. Mitchell, Senior Lecturer in Classics & Ancient History, Exeter University (UK)
    Phillip Mitsis, A.S. Onassis Professor of Classics and Philosophy, New York University (USA)
    Peter Franz Mittag, Professor fur Alte Geschichte, Universitat zu Koln (Germany)
    David Gordon Mitten, James Loeb Professor of Classical Art and Archaeology, Harvard University (USA)
    Mette Moltesen, MA, Curator of Ancient Art, Ny Carlsberg Glyptotek, Copenhagen (Denmark)
    Margaret S. Mook, Associate Professor of Classical Studies, Iowa State University (USA)
    Anatole Mori, Associate Professor of Classical Studies, University of Missouri- Columbia (USA)
    William S. Morison, Associate Professor of Ancient History, Grand Valley State University (USA)
    Jennifer Sheridan Moss, Associate Professor, Wayne State University (USA)
    Aliki Moustaka, Professor of Classical Archaeology, Aristotelian University of Thessaloniki (Greece)
    Mark Munn, Professor of Ancient Greek History and Greek Archaeology, the Pennsylvania State University (USA)
    Ioannis Mylonopoulos, Assistant Professor of Greek Art History and Archaeology, Columbia University, New York (USA)
    Alexander Nehamas, Edmund N. Carpenter II Class of 1943 Professor in the Humanities, Professor of Philosophy and Comparative Literature, Princeton University (USA)
    Richard Neudecker, PD of Classical Archaeology, Deutsches Archaologisches Institut Rom (Italy)
    James M.L. Newhard, Associate Professor of Classics, College of Charleston (USA)
    Carole E. Newlands, Professor of Classics, University of Wisconsin, Madison (USA)
    Andrew G. Nichols, Visiting Lecturer of Classics, University of Florida (USA)
    Jessica L. Nitschke, Assistant Professor of Classics, Georgetown University (USA)
    John Maxwell O’Brien, Professor of History, Queens College, City University of New York (USA)
    James J. O’Hara, Paddison Professor of Latin, The University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill (USA)
    Martin Ostwald, Professor of Classics (ret.), Swarthmore College and Professor of Classical Studies (ret.), University of Pennsylvania (USA)
    Olga Palagia, Professor of Classical Archaeology, University of Athens (Greece)
    Beata M. Kitsikis Panagopoulos, Professor of Art History, Retired, San Jose State University, Caifornia (USA)
    Christos Panayides, Associate Professor of Philosophy, University of Nicosia, (Cyprus)
    Vassiliki Panoussi, Associate Professor of Classical Studies, The College of William and Mary (USA)
    Maria C. Pantelia, Professor of Classics, University of California, Irvine (USA)
    Pantos A.Pantos, Adjunct Faculty, Department of History, Archaeology and Social Anthropology, University of Thessaly (Greece)
    Eleni Papaefthymiou, Curator of the Numismatic Collection of the Foundation of the Hellenic World (Greece)
    Maria Papaioannou, Assistant Professor in Classical Archaeology, University of New Brunswick (Canada)
    Anthony J. Papalas, Professor of Ancient History, East Carolina University (USA)
    Nassos Papalexandrou, Associate Professor, The University of Texas at Austin (USA)
    Polyvia Parara, Visiting Assistant Professor of Greek Language and Civilization, Department of Classics, Georgetown University (USA)
    Richard W. Parker, Associate Professor of Classics, Brock University (Canada)
    Robert Parker, Wykeham Professor of Ancient History, New College, Oxford (UK)
    Robert J. Penella, Professor and Chairman, Classics, Fordham University (USA)
    Anastasia-Erasmia Peponi, Associate Professor of Classics, Stanford University (USA)
    Jacques Perreault, Professor of Greek archaeology, Universite de Montreal, Quebec (Canada)
    Patrick Pfeil, magister artium Universitat Leipzig, Alte Geschichte (Germany)
    Edward A. Phillips, Professor of Classics at Grinnell College (USA)
    Yanis Pikoulas, Associate Professor of Ancient Greek History, University of Thessaly (Greece)
    Lefteris Platon, Assistant Professor of Archaeology, University of Athens (Greece)
    John Pollini, Professor of Classical Art & Archaeology, University of Southern California (USA)
    David Potter, Arthur F. Thurnau Professor of Greek and Latin. The University of Michigan (USA)
    Daniel Potts, Edwin Cuthbert Hall Professor of Middle Eastern Archaeology, University of Sydney (Australia)
    Robert L. Pounder, Professor Emeritus of Classics, Vassar College (USA)
    Nikolaos Poulopoulos, Assistant Professor in History and Chair in Modern Greek Studies, McGill University (Canada)
    Selene Psoma, Senior Lecturer of Ancient History, University of Athens (Greece)
    William H. Race, George L. Paddison Professor of Classics, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill (USA)
    John T. Ramsey, Professor of Classics, University of Illinois at Chicago (USA)
    Christian R. Raschle, Assistant Professor of Roman History, Centre d’Etudes Classiques & Departement d’Histoire, Universite de Montreal (Canada)
    Karl Reber, Professor of Classical Archaeology, University of Lausanne (Switzerland)
    Gary Reger, Professor of History Trinity College, Connecticut (USA)
    Rush Rehm, Professor of Classics and Drama, Stanford University (USA)
    Heather L. Reid, Professor of Philosophy, Morningside College (USA)
    Prof. Dr. Christoph Reusser, Professor of Classical Archaeology, University of Zurich (Switzerland)
    Werner Riess, Associate Professor of Classics, The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill (USA)
    Dr Tracey E Rihll, Senior lecturer, Department of Classics, Ancient History and Egyptology, Swansea University ( Wales, UK)
    Robert H. Rivkin, Ancient Studies Department, University of Maryland Baltimore County (USA)
    Walter M. Roberts III, Assistant Professor of Classics, University of Vermont (USA)
    Barbara Saylor Rodgers, Professor of Classics, The University of Vermont (USA)
    Robert H. Rodgers. Lyman-Roberts Professor of Classical Languages and Literature, University of Vermont (USA)
    Guy MacLean Rogers, Kemper Professor of Classics and History, Wellesley College (USA)
    Roberto Romano, professore di ruolo (II level) di Civilta bizantina e Storia bizantina, Universita “Federico II” di Napoli (Italy)
    Nathan Rosenstein, Professor of Ancient History, The Ohio State University (USA)
    John C. Rouman, Professor Emeritus of Classics, University of New Hampshire, (USA)
    Dr. James Roy, Reader in Greek History (retired), University of Nottingham (UK)
    Steven H. Rutledge, Associate Professor of Classics, Department of Classics, University of Maryland, College Park (USA)
    Daniel J. Sahas, Professor Emeritus, University of Waterloo (Canada)
    Christina A. Salowey, Associate Professor of Classics, Hollins University (USA)
    Pierre Sanchez, Professor of Ancient History, University of Geneva (Switzerland)
    Theodore Scaltsas, Professor of Ancient Greek Philosophy, University of Edinburgh (UK)
    Thomas F. Scanlon, Professor of Classics, University of California, Riverside (USA)
    Prof. Dr. Thomas Schafer, Institut fur Klassische Archaologie, Universitat Tubingen (Germany)
    Bernhard Schmaltz, Prof. Dr. Archaologisches Institut der CAU, Kiel (Germany)
    Prof. Dr. Andras Schmidt-Colinet, Professor of Classical Archaeology, University of Vienna (Austria)
    Robert C. Schmiel, Prof. Emeritus of Greek & Roman Studies, University of Calgary (Canada)
    Rolf M. Schneider, Professor of Classical Archaeology, Ludwig-Maximilians- Universitat Munchen (Germany)
    Joseph B. Scholten, PhD, Associate Director, Office of International Programs/Affiliate Assoc. Prof. of Classics, University of Maryland, College Park (USA)
    Peter Scholz, Professor of Ancient History and Culture, University of Stuttgart (Germany)
    Christof Schuler, director, Commission for Ancient History and Epigraphy of the German Archaeological Institute, Munich (Germany)
    Paul D. Scotton, Assoociate Professor Classical Archaeology and Classics, California State University Long Beach (USA)
    Danuta Shanzer, Professor of Classics and Medieval Studies, The University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign and Fellow of the Medieval Academy of America (USA)
    James P. Sickinger, Associate Professor of Classics, Florida State University (USA)
    Athanasios Sideris, Ph.D., Head of the History and Archaeology Department, Foundation of the Hellenic World, Athens (Greece)
    G. M. Sifakis, Professor Emeritus of Classics, Aristotle University of Thessaloniki & New York University (Greece & USA)
    Christos Simelidis, British Academy Postdoctoral Fellow, Lincoln College, University of Oxford (UK)
    Henk W. Singor, Associate Professor of Ancient History Leiden University (Netherlands)
    Prof. Dr. Ulrich Sinn, Professor of Classical Archaeology, University of Wurzburg (Germany)
    Marilyn B. Skinner Professor of Classics, University of Arizona (USA)
    Niall W. Slater, Samuel Candler Dobbs Professor of Latin and Greek, Emory University (USA)
    Peter M. Smith, Associate Professor of Classics, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill (USA)
    Dr. Philip J. Smith, Research Associate in Classical Studies, McGill University (Canada)
    Susan Kirkpatrick Smith Assistant Professor of Anthropology Kennesaw State University (USA)
    Antony Snodgrass, Professor Emeritus of Classical Archaeology, University of Cambridge (UK)
    Gina M. Soter, Lecturer IV, Classical Studies, The University of Michigan (USA)
    Slawomir Sprawski, Assistant Professor of Ancient History, Jagiellonian University, Krakow (Poland)
    Stylianos V. Spyridakis, Professor of Ancient History. University of California, Davis (USA)
    Theodosia Stefanidou-Tiveriou, Professor of Classical Archaeology, Aristotle University of Thessaloniki (Greece)
    Rachel Sternberg, Associate Professor of Classics, Case Western Reserve University (USA)
    Dr. Tom Stevenson, Lecturer in Classics and Ancient History, University of Queensland (Australia)
    Andrew Stewart, Nicholas C. Petris Professor of Greek Studies, University of California, Berkeley (USA)
    Oliver Stoll, Univ.-Prof. Dr., Alte Geschichte/ Ancient History,Universitat Passau (Germany)
    Richard Stoneman, Honorary Fellow, University of Exeter (UK)
    Ronald Stroud, Klio Distinguished Professor of Classical Languages and Literature Emeritus, University of California, Berkeley (USA)
    Sarah Culpepper Stroup, Associate Professor of Classics, University of Washington (USA)
    Dr Panico J. Stylianou, Lecturer in Ancient History, Lady Margaret Hall, University of Oxford (UK)
    Thomas A. Suits, Emeritus Professor of Classical Languages, University of Connecticut (USA)
    Nancy Sultan, Professor and Director, Greek & Roman Studies, Illinois Wesleyan University (USA)
    Peter Michael Swan, Professor of History Emeritus, University of Saskatchewan (Canada)
    David W. Tandy, Professor of Classics, University of Tennessee (USA)
    James Tatum, Aaron Lawrence Professor of Classics, Dartmouth College (USA)
    Martha C. Taylor, Associate Professor of Classics, Loyola College in Maryland (USA)
    Petros Themelis, Professor Emeritus of Classical Archaeology, Athens (Greece)
    Eberhard Thomas, Priv.-Doz. Dr.,Archaologisches Institut der Universitat zu Koln (Germany)
    Michalis Tiverios, Professor of Classical Archaeology, Aristotle University of Thessaloniki (Greece)
    Michael K. Toumazou, Professor of Classics, Davidson College (USA)
    Stephen V. Tracy, Professor of Greek and Latin Emeritus, Ohio State University (USA)
    Prof. Dr. Erich Trapp, Austrian Academy of Sciences/Vienna resp. University of Bonn (Germany)
    Christopher Trinacty, Keiter Fellow in Classics, Amherst College (USA)
    Stephen M. Trzaskoma, Associate Professor of Classics, University of New Hampshire (USA)
    Vasiliki Tsamakda, Professor of Christian Archaeology and Byzantine History of Art, University of Mainz (Germany)
    Christopher Tuplin, Professor of Ancient History, University of Liverpool (UK)
    Yannis Tzifopoulos, Associate Professor of Ancient Greek and Epigraphy, Aristotle University of Thessaloniki (Greece)
    Gretchen Umholtz, Lecturer, Classics and Art History, University of Massachusetts, Boston (USA)
    Panos Valavanis, Professor of Classical Archaeology, University of Athens (Greece)
    Eric R. Varner, Associate Professor, Departments of Classics and Art History, Emory University, Atlanta (USA)
    Athanassios Vergados, Visiting Assistant Professor of Classics, Franklin & Marshall College (USA)
    Frederik J. Vervaet, PhD, Lecturer in Ancient History. School of Historical Studies The University of Melbourne (Australia)
    Christina Vester, Assistant Professor of Classics, University of Waterloo (Canada)
    Dr. Zsolt Visy, Leiter Universität Pécs Lehrstuhl für Alte Geschichte und Archäologie, Archäologisches Seminar (Hungary)
    Emmanuel Voutiras, Professor of Classical Archaeology, Aristotle University of Thessaloniki (Greece)
    Speros Vryonis, Jr., Alexander S. Onassis Professor (Emeritus) of Hellenic Civilization and Culture, New York University (USA)
    Michael B. Walbank, Professor Emeritus of Greek, Latin & Ancient History, The University of Calgary (Canada)
    Dr. Irma Wehgartner, Curator of the Martin von Wagner Museum der Universitat Wurzburg (Germany)
    Bonna D. Wescoat, Associate Professor, Art History and Ancient Mediterranean Studies, Emory University (USA)
    E. Hector Williams, Professor of Classical Archaeology, University of British Columbia (Canada)
    Peter James Wilson FAHA, William Ritchie Professor of Classics, The University of Sydney (Australia)
    Roger J. A. Wilson, Professor of the Archaeology of the Roman Empire, and Director, Centre for the Study of Ancient Sicily, University of British Columbia, Vancouver (Canada)
    Engelbert Winter, Professor for Ancient History, University of Munster (Germany)
    Timothy F. Winters, Ph.D. Alumni Assn. Distinguished Professor of Classics Austin Peay State University (USA)
    Ioannis Xydopoulos, Assistant Professor in Ancient History, Aristotle University of Thessaloniki (Greece)
    David C. Young, Professor of Classics Emeritus, University of Florida (USA)
    Maria Ypsilanti, Assistant Professor of Ancient Greek Literature, University of Cyprus (Cyprus)
    Katerina Zacharia, Associate Professor and Chair, Department of Classics & Archaeology, Loyola Marymount University (USA)
    Michael Zahrnt, Professor fur Alte Geschichte, Universitat zu Koln (Germany)
    Paul Zanker, Professor Emeritus of Classical Studies, University of Munich (Germany)
    Froma I. Zeitlin, Ewing Professor of Greek Language & Literature, Professor of Comparative Literature, Princeton University (USA)





    - - - Aktualisiert - - -

    @Zoran
    Jetzt gib mir bitte einen ich will nicht viele einen einzigen anerkannten Historika von einer Universität auf der Welt der deine thesen hier bestetigt, der sagt das die heutigen bewohner von FYROM sich als die nachfahren der Antiken Makedonen sehen können und die Antiken Makedonen als die Geschichte von Fyrom bestätigt! Das ist ja deine Meinung. Und dadrunter seine unterschrieft gesetzt hat.

  2. #10482
    Avatar von Hellenic-Pride

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    Zitat Zitat von Cobra Beitrag anzeigen
    Wie kann man, sorry, so dämlich im Kopf sein und sich wegen eines beschissenen Namens so einen Terror liefern!
    Schön, denn genau daran sieht man dass welche wie du nicht die leistete Ahnung haben bzgl. des Themas. Um einen Namen geht es schon lange nicht mehr, sondern um kulturellen Diebstahl dass FYROM betreibt.

    Übrigens...gestern bei der Handball WM und sonst übrigens auch bei Sport Großereignissen steht bei euch immer nur Griechenland und bei den Mak(z)edonen stand eben MKD dort, sprich Makedonien
    Schön ... macht sie trotzdem nicht zu Makedonen, denn Makedonen kommen aus Makedonien und nicht aus einem Ex-Jugoslawischen Staat.

    Zitat Zitat von Zoran Beitrag anzeigen
    Zu dem markierten, eure Identität ist griechisch, schau mal und hör mal dem Pfarrer zu, er ist Grieche, er erklärt wie er vom griechischem Staat geschlagen wurde weil er sich Makedonier nennen wollte. "Wie, was, du willst Makedonas sein - PRÜGEL"

    Sag mal, wie oft willst du eigentlich dieses zurecht geschnittene Video posten, du völlig verblödeter Dummkopf? Zur Abwechslung mal das ganze Video posten und nicht irgend eine zurecht geschnittene Scheiße aus dem Hause Skopje.

    Idiot!

    Zitat Zitat von Zoran Beitrag anzeigen
    Morgen, Bitteschön:

    Was ist griechische Geschichte? Ein Fallbeispiel zur Problematik historischer Räume (Andreas Hartmann) - Academia.edu

    NICHT HELLENEN IN GRIECHENLAND: DAS MAKEDONIEN PROBLEM


    II. Hat Griechenland eine Alte Geschichte
    1 Hellas außerhalb des modernen Griechenland
    Selbst für Studenten der Geschichtswissenschaft ist es keineswegs selbstverständlich, dass das antike Hellás oder auch die römische Provinz Achaia keineswegs mit dem Gebiet des modernen Staates Griechenland koinzidieren.
    ...


    2 Nichthellenen in Griechenland: das Makedonienproblem
    Andererseits jedoch sind Gebiete, die zum Staatsgebiet des modernen Griechenland gehören und deren historische Tradition vom griechischen Staat teilweise vehement in Anspruch genommen wird, der antiken Anschauung nach keine oder nur zweifelhafte Teile von Hellás: Thessalien, Epeiros und vor allem Makedonien


    Und auch hier, wieder die gleiche Leier. Copy & Paste-Orgie by Zoran - wurde schon längst aufgeklärt dass du selbst deine eigenen Quellen nicht verstehst!

    Endlosschleife: Mazedonier vs. Griechen

  3. #10483
    Avatar von artemi

    Registriert seit
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    der pfarrer ist stolz ein grieche zu sein, wurde aber geschlagen weil er sich früher makedonas genannt hat? was versteh ich nicht ganz an den videos..

  4. #10484
    Avatar von Hellenic-Pride

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    Zitat Zitat von Palaiologos XI Beitrag anzeigen
    @Zoran
    Jetzt gib mir bitte einen ich will nicht viele einen einzigen anerkannten Historika von einer Universität auf der Welt der deine thesen hier bestetigt, der sagt das die heutigen bewohner von FYROM sich als die nachfahren der Antiken Makedonen sehen können und die Antiken Makedonen als die Geschichte von Fyrom bestätigt! Das ist ja deine Meinung. Und dadrunter seine unterschrieft gesetzt hat.
    Ich glaube du hast unseren Lattenheinrich noch nicht richtig durchschaut, mein Freund. Es gibt keinen renommierten Historiker der bestätigt dass die kulturellen Nachfahren der alten Makedonen die Slawen FYROMs seien oder dass die Geschichte Makedoniens (Alexanderfeldzug) historisch zu FYROM gehört; das weiß unser Lattenheinrich Zoran auch. Ihm geht es nur darum die Makedonen von den Griechen/Hellenen zu trennen - das reicht ihm schon. Mit dieser "Trennung" assoziiert er eine ethnische und kulturelle Verwandtschaft, nach dem Beispiel:

    "Wenn sie schon nicht zu Makedonien gehören, wer sonst außer wir? Wir nennen uns Makedonen also kommen nur wir in Frage!"

    Dass das historisch sogar so unsinnig ist und jeder vernünftigen Logik widerspricht, scheint ihm egal zu sein. Menschen die vergebens was sein wollen, was sie aber nicht sein können, agieren eben so. Der Lattenheinrich dachte sein Leben lang er sei kultureller Nachfahre eines in die Geschichte eingegangenen Volkes - Pustekuchen, als er ein Geschichtsbuch öffnete.

    Τι είπε ο Νίμιτς στη συνάντηση που είχε με την Παμμακεδονική

    ΝΕΑ ΥΟΡΚΗ. Ο ειδικός μεσολαβητής των Ηνωμένων Εθνών για το θέμα της ονομασίας του κράτους των Σκοπίων, Μάθιου Νίμιτς, κατά τη συνάντηση που είχε την Παρασκευή στη Νέα Υόρκη με αντιπροσωπεία της Παμμακεδονικής, αναγνώρισε ότι οι Σκοπιανοί είναι Σλάβοι και ότι «έκαναν τεράστιο σφάλμα στην προσπάθειά τους για αρχαιοποίηση της κοινωνίας και χρησιμοποίηση των αρχαίων ελληνικών μακεδονικών συμβόλων», δήλωσε στον «Εθνικό Κήρυκα» ο πρόεδρος της οργάνωσης, ιατρός Αντώνιος Παπαδόπουλος. «Επί πλέον, ο κ. Νίμιτς όταν του ανέφερα το θέμα της Μακεδονικής ταυτότητας και ότι δεν πρέπει να χρησιμοποιείται ο επιθετικός προσδιορισμός ‘Μακεδονικός’ για το στρατό τους, τη γλώσσα τους και το λαό τους, μου είπε ότι, πράγματι, ίσως να είναι μια καλή ιδέα να χρησιμοποιείται ο όρος ‘ο λαός της τάδε Δημοκρατίας’, ‘ο στρατός της τάδε Δημοκρατίας’ και ‘η γλώσσα της τάδε Δημοκρατίας’, και όχι ο επιθετικός προσδιορισμός ‘Μακεδονικός’ κ.λπ.», πρόσθεσε.

    http://www.ekirikas.com/article/79359

    Kann das jemand mit anderen oder mehreren Quellen bestätigen?

  5. #10485
    Avatar von Zoran

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    Zitat Zitat von Palaiologos XI Beitrag anzeigen
    Ich weis das das lächerlich ist das du von mir einen beweis willst das alle Universitäten der Welt den Hellenismus lehren den Alexander verbreitet hat, aber wie wers den wen wir mit 347 Historiker und Archäologen aus der ganzen Welt anfangen die sagen das die Antiken Makedonen zur Griechischen Geschichte gehören und die bewohner FYROMS nichts mit den Antiken Makedonen gemeinsam haben.

    "Stephen G. Miller

    347 Unterschriften von Koryphäen der Historik und Archäologie haben sich bis Heute unter dem Brief von Stephen G.Miller, an das Staatsoberhaupt der Vereinigten Staaten, mit dem Apell die irreführende und historisch falsche Anerkennung der ehemaligen jugoslawischen Republik (FYROM) als „Republic of Macedonia“ zu überdenken und somit der Usurpation von griechischer Geschichte entgegenzuwirken, eingefunden."
    Du hast die Behauptung aufgestellt, also schau zu wie du aus der Lage wieder rauskommst ... das ist nicht mein Problem.


    @Zoran hier ist der Brief

    The Honorable Barack Obama
    President, United States of AmericaWhite House1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, NWWashington, DC 20500Dear President Obama,We, the undersigned scholars of Graeco-Roman antiquity, respectfully request that you intervene to clean up some of the historical debris left in southeast Europe by the previous U.S. administration.On November 4, 2004, two days after the re-election of President George W. Bush, his administration unilaterally recognized the “Republic of Macedonia.” This action not only abrogated geographic and historic fact, but it also has unleashed a dangerous epidemic of historical revisionism, of which the most obvious symptom is the misappropriation by the government in Skopje of the most famous of Macedonians, Alexander the Great.We believe that this silliness has gone too far, and that the U.S.A. has no business in supporting the subversion of history. Let us review facts. (The documentation for these facts [here in boldface] can be found attached and at: Obama - Documentation on Macedonia)The land in question, with its modern capital at Skopje, was called Paionia in antiquity. Mts. Barnous and Orbelos (which form today the northern limits of Greece) provide a natural barrier that separated, and separates, Macedonia from its northern neighbor. The only real connection is along the Axios/Vardar River and even this valley “does not form a line of communication because it is divided by gorges.”While it is true that the Paionians were subdued by Philip II, father of Alexander, in 358 B.C. they were not Macedonians and did not live in Macedonia. Likewise, for example, the Egyptians, who were subdued by Alexander, may have been ruled by Macedonians, including the famous Cleopatra, but they were never Macedonians themselves, and Egypt was never called Macedonia.Rather, Macedonia and Macedonian Greeks have been located for at least 2,500 years just where the modern Greek province of Macedonia is. Exactly this same relationship is true for Attica and Athenian Greeks, Argos and Argive Greeks, Corinth and Corinthian Greeks, etc.We do not understand how the modern inhabitants of ancient Paionia, who speak Slavic – a language introduced into the Balkans about a millennium after the death of Alexander – can claim him as their national hero. Alexander the Great was thoroughly and indisputably Greek. His great-great-great grandfather, Alexander I, competed in the Olympic Games where participation was limited to Greeks.Even before Alexander I, the Macedonians traced their ancestry to Argos, and many of their kings used the head of Herakles – the quintessential Greek hero – on their coins.Euripides – who died and was buried in Macedonia– wrote his play Archelaos in honor of the great-uncle of Alexander, and in Greek. While in Macedonia, Euripides also wrote the Bacchai, again in Greek. Presumably the Macedonian audience could understand what he wrote and what they heard.Alexander’s father, Philip, won several equestrian victories at Olympia and Delphi, the two most Hellenic of all the sanctuaries in ancient Greece where non-Greeks were not allowed to compete. Even more significantly, Philip was appointed to conduct the Pythian Games at Delphi in 346 B.C. In other words, Alexander the Great’s father and his ancestors were thoroughly Greek. Greek was the language used by Demosthenes and his delegation from Athens when they paid visits to Philip, also in 346 B.C. Another northern Greek, Aristotle, went off to study for nearly 20 years in the Academy of Plato. Aristotle subsequently returned to Macedonia and became the tutor of Alexander III. They used Greek in their classroom which can still be seen near Naoussa in Macedonia.
    Alexander carried with him throughout his conquests Aristotle’s edition of Homer’s Iliad. Alexander also spread Greek language and culture throughout his empire, founding cities and establishing centers of learning. Hence inscriptions concerning such typical Greek institutions as the gymnasium are found as far away as Afghanistan. They are all written in Greek.The questions follow: Why was Greek the lingua franca all over Alexander’s empire if he was a “Macedonian”? Why was the New Testament, for example, written in Greek?The answers are clear: Alexander the Great was Greek, not Slavic, and Slavs and their language were nowhere near Alexander or his homeland until 1000 years later. This brings us back to the geographic area known in antiquity as Paionia. Why would the people who live there now call themselves Macedonians and their land Macedonia? Why would they abduct a completely Greek figure and make him their national hero?The ancient Paionians may or may not have been Greek, but they certainly became Greekish, and they were never Slavs. They were also not Macedonians. Ancient Paionia was a part of the Macedonian Empire. So were Ionia and Syria and Palestine and Egypt and Mesopotamia and Babylonia and Bactria and many more. They may thus have become “Macedonian” temporarily, but none was ever “Macedonia”. The theft of Philip and Alexander by a land that was never Macedonia cannot be justified.The traditions of ancient Paionia could be adopted by the current residents of that geographical area with considerable justification. But the extension of the geographic term “Macedonia” to cover southern Yugoslavia cannot. Even in the late 19th century, this misuse implied unhealthy territorial aspirations.The same motivation is to be seen in school maps that show the pseudo-greater Macedonia, stretching from Skopje to Mt. Olympus and labeled in Slavic. The same map and its claims are in calendars, bumper stickers, bank notes, etc., that have been circulating in the new state ever since it declared its independence from Yugoslavia in 1991. Why would a poor land-locked new state attempt such historical nonsense? Why would it brazenly mock and provoke its neighbor?However one might like to characterize such behavior, it is clearly not a force for historical accuracy, nor for stability in the Balkans. It is sad that the United States of America has abetted and encouraged such behavior.We call upon you, Mr. President, to help – in whatever ways you deem appropriate – the government in Skopje to understand that it cannot build a national identity at the expense of historic truth. Our common international society cannot survive when history is ignored, much less when history is fabricated.Sincerely,
    Jo Danke, den kennen wir ja dank euch griechischen User in und auswendig. Aber den peinlichen Geschichts-politischen Aufruf seitens Miller haben auch seine Kollegen verurteilt. Das dieser Versuch kläglich gescheitert ist klar, den Schmarrn unterstützt doch kein vernünftiger Historiker mehr
    Hier die letzten Einträge, von 2011, ganze 2, auch noch Griechen oben drauf:


    1 Scholar added on April 18th 2011:Antonis Bartsiokas, Associate Professor of Anthropology, Department of History and Ethnology, University of Thrace (Greece)
    1 Scholar added on October 16th 2011:
    Thanasis Maskaleris, Emeritus Professor of Classics and Comparative Literature, San Francisco State University (USA)

    @Zoran und hier sind die unterschrieften der Historiker und Archäologen aus aller Welt mit titel Universität und dem Land wo sie herkommen.

    Die Hälfte davon sind ja Griechen

    ,auch HIER hatte ich was dazu "gesagt",dann hab ich noch ein bisschen mit FARBE gespielt damit das mit der "Hälfte" besser zur Geltung kommt.




    - - - Aktualisiert - - -

    @Zoran
    Jetzt gib mir bitte einen ich will nicht viele einen einzigen anerkannten Historika von einer Universität auf der Welt der deine thesen hier bestetigt, der sagt das die heutigen bewohner von FYROM sich als die nachfahren der Antiken Makedonen sehen können und die Antiken Makedonen als die Geschichte von Fyrom bestätigt! Das ist ja deine Meinung. Und dadrunter seine unterschrieft gesetzt hat.

    Erst Beweise uns du mal das diese 300 und paar Historiker auch "anerkannt" sind, unter den ca. die Hälfte Griechen sind, die anderen sind Sporternährungs-Historiker, Religionslehrer, Bäcker und Metzger,...





    Ich schau mal nachher nach der Herodot Sache, aber soweit ich mich erinnern kann hast du den Test nicht Bestanden

    Mach dir kein Kopf, dass passiert auch den anderen Malakas öfters

  6. #10486
    Avatar von Hellenic-Pride

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  7. #10487
    clk
    Avatar von clk

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    07.03.2012
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    Ja und was soll uns jetzt das Video genau sagen?

  8. #10488

    Registriert seit
    23.03.2012
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    970
    Dass in Fyrom ziemlich krasse Pilze wachsen müssen, hoffentlich...

  9. #10489
    Avatar von Hellenic-Pride

    Registriert seit
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    Zitat Zitat von clk Beitrag anzeigen
    Ja und was soll uns jetzt das Video genau sagen?
    Was hältst du denn davon dass so etwas im TV bei euch in FYROM läuft?

  10. #10490
    clk
    Avatar von clk

    Registriert seit
    07.03.2012
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    Zitat Zitat von Hellenic-Pride Beitrag anzeigen
    Was hältst du denn davon dass so etwas im TV bei euch in FYROM läuft?
    Ich kenn nur Makedonisches TV was im "Fyrom" läuft kann ich nicht sagen. Was läuft den so bei euch in FOROY?

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