BalkanForum - das Forum für alle Balkanesen
Erweiterte Suche
Kontakt
BalkanForum - das Forum für alle Balkanesen
Benutzerliste

Willkommen bei BalkanForum - das Forum für alle Balkanesen.
Seite 198 von 282 ErsteErste ... 98148188194195196197198199200201202208248 ... LetzteLetzte
Ergebnis 1.971 bis 1.980 von 2820

Endlosschleife Part 2: Mazedonier vs. Griechen

Erstellt von Lilith, 29.09.2014, 16:07 Uhr · 2.819 Antworten · 88.730 Aufrufe

  1. #1971
    Avatar von Makedonec do Koska

    Registriert seit
    28.04.2012
    Beiträge
    4.755
    British documents about Greece's aspirations in Macedonia

    Samstag, Oktober 15, 2016 19.-20. Jhdt. , Ägäis Makedonien , Balkankriege , English , Neu , Pirin Makedonien




    Throughout its history, Macedonia has always been the subject of conquering by its neighboring countries. However, the neighbors, aspiring to expand their territory into Macedonia, were aware they would not succeed if not for the support from the big forces. There are two British documents, dating back to the 1880s, which are a testament to Greece’s efforts to receive the support of some of the big forces in order to expand its territory into Macedonia.


    The first one refers to an article published in the pro­government newspaper “Ora”, which reflect the views of the government, led by Trikoupis, immediately before the visit of the Austro­Hungarian crown prince of Athens in March 1885. Greece wanted to win over Wien’s support in order to get Thessaloniki in exchange for Greek guarantees about Austro­Hungary’s trading interests in the Aegean Sea. The second document, dating back to 1888, refers to the possibility of an alliance between Greece and Russia and an agreement between the two countries that would help Greece conquer Macedonia.

    Territorial pretensions
    Dr. Dalibor Jovanovski, professor of history at the Faculty of Philosophy at the University of “Ss. Cyril and Methodius” in Skopje, says that after Thessaly became part of Greece in 1881, it began to border with Macedonia, one of the richest Ottoman regions resource­wise, and to which Athens had expressed territorial pretensions.

    “It gave Greece the opportunity for an even stronger economical penetration, as well as political and cultural propaganda in Macedonia. It was aided by the Constantinople Patriarchy. Greece had expressed interest in Macedonia even before that, during the great eastern crisis, and had propaganda activities in and revolving around Macedonia. It has to be taken into consideration that the Greek government had greater interest in Crete at the time, where the chances of success were bigger because the nationalities of the island were better suited to the Greek aspirations, but also because none of the other Balkan countries had expressed such interest. That certainly wasn’t a reason for Greece to stop its activities in Macedonia altogether” – says Professor Dr. Dalibor Jovanovski.

    According to him, when speaking about Greece’s plans and aspirations for Macedonia, we should also consider the fact that Greece, on its own, couldn’t have succeeded in its plans for several reasons.

    “The first reason was a possible conflict with the Ottoman Empire. Greece was arguably the weaker side in that context. But economically, Greece could have responded with strong economical counter­measures that would have affected the interests of both Greece and the Ottoman Greeks, a fact Athens had in mind. Greece wasn’t the only country with territorial pretensions towards Macedonia, with Bulgaria and Serbia showing similar interest. At the time, however, such cooperation between those three countries for a joint action in Macedonia was impossible” – says professor Jovanovski.



    A great European force also had an interest in Macedonia – Austro­Hungary.
    “The Greek government was well aware that the great forces would not allow a change in the status­quo situation, achieved by the agreement at the Berlin Congress in 1878. Therefore, Greece realized its best chance at succeeding in its aspirations was by joining forces with one or several of the big European countries. The two British documents prove that” – the professor says.

    Winning over Austro­Hungary

    According to the professor, the first document referred to an article published in the pro­government newspaper “Ora”, which reflected the views of the government led by Trikoupis prior to the visit of Austro­Hungarian Crown Prince of Athens in March 1885.

    “The article said that it was in Wien’s interest to support Athens in its efforts to get Thessaloniki in exchange for Greek guarantees regarding Austro­Hungary’s trading interests in the Aegean Sea. The timing of the article was intentional as Greece had been trying to establish closer relations with Wien since 1883 in order to receive Austro­Hungary’s support in its interests, particularly Macedonia. Even though Greece presented its persistence as an effort to solve the Slavic threat to Greece and Austro­Hungary’s interests, the real reason was the fear that the Danube Monarchy might have a direct access at the Aegean Sea through Thessaloniki. Such a scenario would pose a great threat to the Greek interest and the faith of Hellenism in general” – the historian says.

    He says Greece’s desire for Thessaloniki was best described by the British Ambassador in Athens,
    Nicholson, that Trikoupis had based the entire future of Greece on the acquisition of Thessaloniki.

    Possibility for Greek­Russian alliance in order to acquire Macedonia
    The second document, dating back to 1888, refers to the possibility of an alliance between Greece and Russia and an agreement between the two countries that would help Greece conquer Macedonia.


    Prime Minister Trikoupis hinted at that possibility in his conversation with the British Ambassador in Athens. However, there are question marks about what triggered such a possibility, whether it was realistic and whether the Greeks believed in it. The change of direction in the Bulgarian foreign policy had Russia in an unenviable position. Aside from Montenegro, Petrograd’s influence in the other Balkan Christian countries had diminished. The convention from 1881 left Serbia under the influence of Wien, Sofia turned to the West, while Russian influence in Greece had been at the lowest point for years. However Russia saw its opportunity in the fact that Greece was not pleased with the results of the Bulgarian unification and the fact that Athens was not compensated, as well as the opinion of the Greek government that its main partner, England, was shifting its focus towards Bulgaria. This was where Russia stepped in and promised Greece to support its aspirations” – says the professor.


    He thinks that the possibility had existed since early 1887, when Russia first announced its intention to support the Greek interests, even though nothing was official. In early 1888, the Russian diplomacy tested the waters by announcing its alleged desire to support Greece’s aspirations in Southern Macedonia, with some even claiming that this was completely true and that the Russian Consul in Thessaloniki received instruction in that direction. Such a position of the Russian diplomacy, honest or not, was something the Greek Prime Minister Trikoupis was familiar with. He used it as a bargaining chip to affirm Greece’s position and intention to acquire Thessaloniki with Russia’s support. He did however, emphasize that it was the only way for Greece as its interests were jeopardized by Austro­Hungary and because of the possibility that Thessaloniki, as well as the entire Macedonia, could fall under Slavic authority. That would leave the Greeks outnumbered and they would not have received help from England” – the professor explains.

    Even though he spoke of a possible coalition with Russia, by stating this, Trikoulis indirectly expressed his disbelief at such a possibility, therefore clearly acknowledging that he hoped that England would be more interested in helping Greece.

    “It later report by the British Ambassador in Athens confirmed it” – says professor Jovanovski.

    Supported by the big forces, Serbia, Bulgaria and Greece eventually succeeded in their territorial
    pretentions in Macedonia with the Bucharest Agreement in 1913.




  2. #1972
    Avatar von Paokaras

    Registriert seit
    02.09.2010
    Beiträge
    8.071
    Zitat Zitat von Paokaras Beitrag anzeigen
    Klar wenn die Quelle aus mein Makedonien blog stammt muss sie stimmen. Oder copy paste ohne Quellenangaben.

    Wenn 100 Historiker das Gegenteil behaupten scheiß egal, wir glauben den einen der die Fyromische Sichtweise vertritt ( meisten irgend ein Slawe)
    Bin voll der Prophet


    Dr. Dalibor Jovanovski

    Dalibor Jovanovski is Associate Professor of Modern Balkan History at the Faculty of Philosophy and Institute for History in Skopje

  3. #1973
    Avatar von ZX 7R

    Registriert seit
    31.01.2012
    Beiträge
    19.180
    Selbst in aller Herrgottsfrühe keine Hemmungen scheisse zu verbreiten.

  4. #1974
    Avatar von Makedonec do Koska

    Registriert seit
    28.04.2012
    Beiträge
    4.755
    Zitat Zitat von Paokaras Beitrag anzeigen
    Bin voll der Prophet


    Dr. Dalibor Jovanovski

    Dalibor Jovanovski is Associate Professor of Modern Balkan History at the Faculty of Philosophy and Institute for History in Skopje

    Tja, mein kleiner zwangsumgesiedelter Türke Du hast dir ja mit Sicherheit den Text durchgelesen, und vielleicht, was ich ja stark bezweifle verstehst du, dass es nicht um Dr. Jovanovski geht, sondern darum was euer griechischer Premierminister Charilaos Trikoupis ausgesagt hat, und das es belegt und dokumentiert ist


    Prime Minister Trikoupis

  5. #1975
    Avatar von ZX 7R

    Registriert seit
    31.01.2012
    Beiträge
    19.180
    War da nicht ein Minister oder gar Präsi aus FYROM, der behauptete Einwohner aus FYROM wären Bulgaren?

  6. #1976
    Avatar von Makedonec do Koska

    Registriert seit
    28.04.2012
    Beiträge
    4.755
    Zitat Zitat von ZX 7R Beitrag anzeigen
    War da nicht ein Minister oder gar Präsi aus FYROM, der behauptete Einwohner aus FYROM wären Bulgaren?


    Er behauptete viel, und Schizophrenie wurde bei ihm schließlich diagnostiziert Und wie er sich sieht, und was die Einwohner der Republik Makedonien angeht, das sind letztendlich 2 Paar Schuhe!

  7. #1977
    Avatar von ZX 7R

    Registriert seit
    31.01.2012
    Beiträge
    19.180
    Zitat Zitat von Makedonec do Koska Beitrag anzeigen
    Er behauptete viel, und Schizophrenie wurde bei ihm schließlich diagnostiziert Und wie er sich sieht, und was die Einwohner der Republik Makedonien angeht, das sind letztendlich 2 Paar Schuhe!


    Ach bei dem gr Minister ist Mundfäulnis diagnostiziert worden....das ist auch belegt.

  8. #1978
    Avatar von Paokaras

    Registriert seit
    02.09.2010
    Beiträge
    8.071
    Zitat Zitat von Makedonec do Koska Beitrag anzeigen
    Tja, mein kleiner zwangsumgesiedelter Türke Du hast dir ja mit Sicherheit den Text durchgelesen, und vielleicht, was ich ja stark bezweifle verstehst du, dass es nicht um Dr. Jovanovski geht, sondern darum was euer griechischer Premierminister Charilaos Trikoupis ausgesagt hat, und das es belegt und dokumentiert ist


    Prime Minister Trikoupis

    Er hat doch recht gehabt, damals war Makedonien eine Provinz von den Osmanen und es lebten viele Völker dort, die grösten waren wir Griechen und ihr Bulgaren. Trikoupis sagt ja wenn die Bulgaren gewinnen machen sie alle zu Slawen. Komisch das er net ,,eure,, Nation erwähnt .

    Musste man damals so machen


    P.s Zum glück haben wir gewonnen und haben fast alle rausgeworfen die sich net anpassen wollten. Kommt davon wenn man muckt

  9. #1979
    Avatar von Aetents

    Registriert seit
    26.04.2012
    Beiträge
    3.357
    Zitat Zitat von Paokaras Beitrag anzeigen
    Er hat doch recht gehabt, damals war Makedonien eine Provinz von den Osmanen und es lebten viele Völker dort, die grösten waren wir Griechen und ihr Bulgaren. Trikoupis sagt ja wenn die Bulgaren gewinnen machen sie alle zu Slawen. Komisch das er net ,,eure,, Nation erwähnt .

    Musste man damals so machen


    P.s Zum glück haben wir gewonnen und haben fast alle rausgeworfen die sich net anpassen wollten. Kommt davon wenn man muckt

    Er schießt sich ein Eigentor nach dem anderen. Wie masochistisch muss ein Mensch nur veranlagt sein.....

  10. #1980
    Avatar von ZX 7R

    Registriert seit
    31.01.2012
    Beiträge
    19.180
    Langsam denk ich er wird von der griechischen Regierung bezahlt.

Ähnliche Themen

  1. Endlosschleife: Mazedonier vs. Griechen
    Von Mudi im Forum Diskussionen Griechenland vs. Mazedonien
    Antworten: 13498
    Letzter Beitrag: 29.09.2014, 12:16
  2. Endlosschleife: Mazedonier vs. Griechen
    Von Burgas im Forum Diskussionen Griechenland vs. Mazedonien
    Antworten: 8527
    Letzter Beitrag: 20.01.2013, 14:09
  3. Endlosschleife: Mazedonier vs. Griechen
    Von Burgas im Forum Politik
    Antworten: 2149
    Letzter Beitrag: 08.07.2012, 17:44
  4. Endlosschleife: Mazedonier vs. Griechen
    Von Burgas im Forum Geschichte und Kultur
    Antworten: 1646
    Letzter Beitrag: 24.04.2012, 21:15
  5. Antworten: 29
    Letzter Beitrag: 03.11.2008, 18:02