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Jason Miko: The name and identity of Macedonia cannot be changed

Erstellt von Makedonec do Koska, 11.01.2014, 13:32 Uhr · 96 Antworten · 9.752 Aufrufe

  1. #61
    Avatar von Zoran

    Registriert seit
    Zitat Zitat von Macedonian-Pride Beitrag anzeigen

    Was? Momo ist nicht weiblich???


  2. #62
    Avatar von Makedonec do Koska

    Registriert seit
    Zitat Zitat von Zoran Beitrag anzeigen
    Was? Momo ist nicht weiblich???


    Ja misev ti mi zbores za Bratjata Grci , neli od pozadi vo gazot se ebat

  3. #63
    Avatar von Temeteron

    Registriert seit
    Zitat Zitat von Macedonian-Pride Beitrag anzeigen
    Ja, du aber anscheinend nicht!
    Geantwortet hast du aber nicht auf Albokings24 Frage...

    Oh mein Gott, dass muss ja Schmerzen...selten dämliches...

  4. #64
    Avatar von Makedonec do Koska

    Registriert seit
    Zitat Zitat von Temeteron Beitrag anzeigen
    Geantwortet hast du aber nicht auf Albokings24 Frage...

    Oh mein Gott, dass muss ja Schmerzen...selten dämliches...

    Vielleicht solltest du mal deine Rosarote Brille abnehmen, dann siehst du "wer" von uns beiden dämlich ist

    PS: Lesen, und gelesenes verstehen, scheint wohl nicht deine Stärke zu sein

  5. #65
    Avatar von Makedonec do Koska

    Registriert seit
    O’Neal: You are Macedonians, and your language is Macedonian, the name issue must be resolved

    Labels: English, Problemkind Griechenland

    You are Macedonians, and your language is Macedonian. After 20 years of unsuccessful negotiations, Macedonia should seek recognition by the General Assembly for UN membership under its constitutional name, Ambassador Robin O’Neal and first mediator in the Greek Macedonian dispute for the program “Voice of the People”.

    Regarding the statement of Greek Prime Minister Andonis Samaras that the Macedonian language is invented work of communists and had never heard of such language, the British diplomat, with reviews: .. “communism asserts that invented many things, but I’ve never heard that invented language”.

    In this context, he explains that comments of Samaras for Macedonian language only showed how hostile is the attitude of the Greek government towards Macedonia.

    - Perhaps he hopes that with these statements will get support from nationalist elements from Bulgaria. This shows how bad is for Macedonia to allow such fanciful dispute to be dragged on for years. It is difficult to find rational solution, says O’Neal.

    - - - Aktualisiert - - -

    Takis Michas: If we ask all countries about the name - 99 % will support the name Republic of Macedonia

    Labels: Problemkind Griechenland

    Takis Michas
    I remain on the position that Greece should recognize the constitutional name of Macedonia, said Greek journalist Takis Michas to “Dnevnik”, following the publication of an analysis titled “Macedonia and East Germany” which talks about how correct, consistent, and selective are the views of Greek foreign policy.

    - If we make a survey around the world and ask all countries about the name issue, 99 percent will say they would support the opinion of Macedonia to be called the Republic of Macedonia, Michas said.

    According to him, the reason for this response is not that they know that much about the history of Macedonia, nor that they care about Macedonia.

    - The only reason why they would say it is standard diplomatic practice. The standard practice is to respect the name, which the government of a sovereign country is using. And it should be respected, not that I or anyone else is concerned about the history of Macedonia, Michas said, adding that he considers that Athens should recognize our constitutional name.

    The continuous Greek refusal to recognize the constitutional name of its neighbor, or the Republic of Macedonia, is based mainly on two arguments by Athens, Michas writes in the analysis. The first is that this name does not correspond to the historical and cultural reality, or that Macedonia was only Greek, and second, that the use of the term Macedonia a country that encompasses geographically part of Macedonia means expansionist ambitions.

    According to him, if these two arguments do not apply only to the neighboring country, but are general rules of Greek foreign policy, it means that Greece does not recognize states whose name does not correspond to the political, historical and cultural realities. Next argument would be that Greece does not recognize states whose name contains expansionist views, according authorities in Greece, replacing just one part of the name is expansionary stance.

    Michas said you should not ask the question whether these rules are correct, but whether Greece is consistent and applies it always or it is done selectively.

    As evidence of selectivity, he takes the example of East Germany. In December 1973 the government of the Greek military junta officially recognized East Germany, after West Germany did it in 1971.

    - Greek governments recognized GDR under its constitutional name German Democratic Republic, and thus violated two rules governing Greek foreign policy, Michas says.

    He says it violates one of the rules because the GDR government was not democratic, but the state was brutal one-party dictatorship that was raising walls to prevent the escape of people. Furthermore, second rule is broken, in this case the name German is used, from a state that is geographically part of the whole of Germany.

    - Why did Greece do it? Why did not ask for recognition of GDR as “One-party dictatorship in East Germany “? And why West Germany did that also? Why Bon did not ask change the name of East Germany, as it does now Greek Macedonia, Michas asks.

    The answer is simple, because Greece and West Germany recognized the constitutional name of GDR guided by standard diplomatic practice, which means recognition of the reality that the name contains no territorial aspirations.

    - Recognition of the name implies acceptance of the fact that it has sovereign rights, including the right of naming, as was the case with Berlin’s decision and the decision of the government in Skopje in Macedonia case, Takis Michas added.

  6. #66
    Avatar von Makedonec do Koska

    Registriert seit
    UMD: Macedonia Should Withdraw from Absurd Name Negotiations

    Labels: Diaspora, English, Problemkind Griechenland

    The United Macedonian Diaspora (UMD) has called Macedonia's President Gjorge Ivanov to formally notify the Security Council and the General Assembly in his speech in the frames of the 69th UN General Assembly that Macedonia will withdraw from the "name negotiations farce".

    "The UMD undoubtedly believes that until Macedonia makes such a move, the elements of the international community will continue to threaten the identity and the right of a national state to Macedonia as irrelevant in the negotiations. They are neither. After eight years of not ceding to Macedonia’s integration in NATO and EU, mainly due to Greece’s objections to the name Macedonia and the latest talks with Bulgaria on the so-called "good neighborly" relations, the UMD does not see any benefit from the continuation of these pointless reflections," the Washington-based organization says, representing the rights of Macedonians from the diaspora.

    According to UMD, Macedonia is recognized by more than 135 countries in the world, and considers the name negotiations inacceptable in terms of the long-term improvement of the Republic of Macedonia. Instead, the organization says, the Macedonian leadership should re-focus its energy on establishing deeper relations with the countries that want to get involved in more productive relations which would strengthen the economy and the security.

    "The UMD believes that the future of Macedonia lies in its actions and they cannot be negotiated nor dictated by any economic intimidations which we have witnessed in the past decade. Macedonia should file an official request to the UN Security Council and General Assembly to vote for a change of the temporary reference "Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia" in the UN to the "Republic of Macedonia"," UMD underlined.

  7. #67

    Registriert seit
    Zitat Zitat von Achillis TH Beitrag anzeigen
    Ich kann mich nicht entscheiden wo Ich hingehen soll Walt Disney oder die Kopie Disney Skopje.

    (lachende Masken des Dionysos)

  8. #68
    Avatar von Lubenica

    Registriert seit
    Zitat Zitat von Nikos Beitrag anzeigen
    Die Griechen waren nicht von den Römern assimiliert worden. Bestes Beispiel ist die griechische Sprache, welche in der
    Zeit des Römischen Reiches so gar ohne Romanismen fortwährend gesprochen worden ist.
    Römer war viel mehr ein Term um sich von der "Heiden" der antike zu unterscheiden.
    Ein weiteres Beispiel ist, dass die Griechen sich als "einzig Legitime" Nachfahren der Römer sahen, bzw. den Italienern
    des Mittelalters dieses Erbe streitig machten.

    Meine eigentliche Frage war folgenden:

    Wenn es tatsächlich stimmen sollte, dass ihr die Nachfahren der antiken Makedonen seid, habe ich einige Fragen:

    1. Wie habt ich euch von den Slawen bzw. Bulgaren "entassimiliert"?
    2. Warum zählen nur die slawischen Makedonen als Makedonen und die griechischen nicht?
    3. Worauf basiert euer Nationalbewusstsein? Weder die Sprache, welche z.B. die Griechen als antike Identifikation nutzen, weder Religion welche
    die Bosnier als unterscheidung zu den anderen Jugoslawen nutzen. Wie entstand diese Gesinnung?
    Du solltest dir erstmal die Frage stellen wie die Proto-Bulgaren und sonstige Stämme/Ethnien etc. sich in den Gebieten niedergelassen haben, sich vermischt haben und assimiliert wurden.




    Adygeer 500 0,00 % 0,00 % 1.1 Islam Adygeisch
    Albaner, Gheg 300 0,40 % 60,00 % 2.2 Christentum Albanisch, Gegisch
    Araber 11.000 0,30 % 5,00 % 1.2 Islam Nord-Levantinisches Arabisch
    Armenier 6.400 2,00 % 90,00 % 2.2 Christentum Armenisch
    Armini, Aromunen 10.000 0,80 % 90,00 % 2.2 Christentum Aromunisch
    Briten 2.500 9,00 % 72,00 % 3.2 Christentum Englisch
    Bulgaren 5.994.000 1,90 % 80,00 % 2.2 Christentum Bulgarisch
    Chinesen, allgemein 1.900 3,00 % 10,00 % 3.1 Nichtreligiöse Chinesisch, Mandarin
    Franzosen 300 2,00 % 76,00 % 2.2 Christentum Französisch
    Gagausen 1.300 7,00 % 90,00 % 3.2 Christentum Gagausisch
    Griechen 1.300 0,18 % 95,00 % 2.2 Christentum Griechisch
    Griechen 2.500 1,00 % 95,00 % 2.2 Christentum Griechisch
    Italiener 400 1,20 % 83,00 % 2.2 Christentum Italienisch
    Juden, Bulgarischsprachige 1.100 0,10 % 0,50 % 1.2 Naturreligionen Bulgarisch
    Krimtataren 1.300 0,10 % 0,50 % 1.2 Islam Krimtatarisch
    Kurden, Kurmanji 200 0,00 % 0,00 % 1.1 Islam Kurmandschi
    Mazedonier 1.600 0,50 % 90,00 % 2.2 Christentum Mazedonisch
    Millets 91.000 3,00 % 19,00 % 3.1 Islam Türkisch
    Moldauer, Moldawier 900 3,70 % 74,00 % 3.1 Christentum Rumänisch
    Palityan, Bogomil 800 0,50 % 75,00 % 2.2 Christentum Bulgarisch
    Polen 800 0,20 % 90,00 % 2.2 Christentum Polnisch
    Pomaken 68.000 0,30 % 1,20 % 1.2 Islam Bulgarisch
    Romani, Balkan, Zargari 96.000 3,46 % 65,00 % 3.1 Christentum Romani, Balkan
    Romani, Vlax 1.700 5,00 % 68,00 % 3.1 Christentum Romani, Vlax
    Russen 9.700 1,00 % 60,00 % 2.2 Christentum Russisch
    Serben 600 0,30 % 85,00 % 2.2 Christentum Serbisch
    Spanier 200 0,00 % 95,00 % 2.1 Christentum Spanisch
    Südasiaten, allgemein 300 1,50 % 4,00 % 1.2 Hinduismus Hindi
    Taube Unknown 0,00 % 79,91 % 2.1 Christentum Bulgarische Zeichensprache
    Tschechen 400 0,90 % 25,00 % 2.2 Nichtreligiöse Tschechisch
    Türken 571.000 0,01 % 0,10 % 1.1 Islam Türkisch
    Vietnamesen 1.700 0,40 % 5,00 % 1.2 Buddhismus Vietnamesisch
    Zigeuner, Bulgarische 234.000 3,00 % 51,00 % 3.1 Christentum Bulgarisch

  9. #69
    Avatar von Makedonec do Koska

    Registriert seit
    Strasbourg Seeks Recognition of Macedonians in Bulgaria Again

    Labels: Bulgarien, Pirin Makedonien

    European Commission against Racism and Intolerance (ECRI) last week released the fifth report on Bulgaria, which, among other things, urged Sofia again to recognize the Macedonian minority and to guarantee its rights, reads daily Dnevnik.

    ECRI report concludes that in the period between reports, Bulgaria showed some progress, but many important issues remained unresolved, as the climate of intolerance and xenophobia. As pointed out by ECRI, the treatment of Roma and the large number of Roma children dropping out of school are some of the issues that need to be solved.

    Stojko Stojkov, one of the leaders of the unregistered Party of Macedonians OMO "Ilinden" - Pirin, said it was good that the report highlighted the problems Macedonians have been facing.

    "The report requires recognition of the Macedonians and Pomaks, and we hope that after this report, Bulgaria will finally grasp the fundamental essence of the problem", says Stojkov for Dnevnik daily.

    In previous reports, ECRI has been pointing out the problem related to recognizing the Macedonian minority, and such recommendations have been given by the Commissioner for Human Rights of the Council of Europe, as well as by the independent UN expert Gay McDougall, but so far Sofia have tried in every way to put the Macedonian issue 'under the carpet'. Macedonians do not have their own registered political party, but also cannot register an NGO that contains the prefix "Macedonian", which confirms that the Bulgarian state has not fully implemented the European Convention on Human Rights, which has been recommended by the ECRI.

    Another moral victory

    "The human rights institutions have won another moral victory. But, that is all about it. No instruments can get Bulgaria to apply the conventions. But the battle continues, and preparations are underway as to register a civic association, and to see how this new attempt will pass", added Stojkov.

    Although ECRI cites positive trends, as it is the one for amendments to the Criminal Code, it still notes that hate speech on the basis of sexual orientation is not sanctioned.

    "Intolerant and racist hate speech in politics is growing, and now the main target are the refugees. Many ultra-nationalist / fascist groups and political parties have been acting in Bulgaria, and such party is represented in the parliament, "the report said, meaning the party ATAKA.

    The ECRI regrets that despite the attempt by the judicial authorities to sanction that party, or to revoke its court registration, it has not happened yet.

    Extremists living on state money

    Intolerant and racist hate speech in politics continues to be a serious problem in Bulgaria, and the condition gets worse, notes ECRI.

    Main goals of racist hate speech are the Roma, Muslims, Jews, Turks and Macedonians. Much of the problem lies in the parliamentary party ATAKA.

    "On the other hand, several smaller ultranationalist political parties and groups have been operating in Bulgaria, including the National Front for the Salvation of Bulgaria (NFSB), the Internal Macedonian Revolutionary Organization-Bulgarian National Movement (VMRO-BND) and the Bulgarian National Union (BPU). ECRI is deeply concerned that easy official recognition is awarded to the extremes parties along with the possibility to receive state subsidies.

    - See more at: Report: Strasbourg Seeks Recognition of Macedonians in Bulgaria Again -

  10. #70

    Registriert seit
    Ούτε FYROM ούτε Makedonija ούτε Macedonia, λέγομαι Vardarska

    Ας υποθέσουμε πως διαθέταμε μία εθνική κυβέρνηση που θα αρνείτο επίμονα να παραχωρήσει το όνομα Μακεδονία στην FYROM και εφήρμοζε όλα τα μέσα ανάσχεσης που διαθέτει στο οπλοστάσιό της, έναντι των διεθνών οργανισμών. Ας υποθέσουμε επίσης πως ο ΟΗΕ και η ΕΕ δέχονται τις ελληνικές θέσεις και δεν αποδέχονται την ονομασία Makedonija ή Macedonia. Πώς θα πειστούν όμως και οι ξένοι λαοί να το αποδεχτούν αφού ήδη παντού χρησιμοποιούν την ονομασία Μακεδονία; Πώς θα πειστεί η GOOGLE και ολόκληρο το διαδίκτυο να διορθώσει από τον χάρτη της το Macedonia;
    Πώς θα πείσουμε τα κράτη που ήδη αναγνώρισαν μονομερώς την FYROM ως Μακεδονία να αναθεωρήσουν; Ποιά θα είναι η τελική ονομασία του κρατιδίου μετά την μεταβατική ονομασία FYROM; Πώς θα πείσουμε τους ίδιους τους Σκοπιανούς να αλλάξουν την ονομασία της χώρας τους που δεκαετίες τώρα χρησιμοποιούν;
    Σίγουρα δεν θα είναι εύκολο και θα χρειαστούν πολλά χρόνια για την παγκόσμια καθιέρωση ενός νέου ονόματος για την FYROM, το οποίο δεν έχει καν εκστομιστεί από τις προδοτικές ελληνικές κυβερνήσεις έως σήμερα, ενώ υπήρχε! Από την ανακίνηση του θέματος μετά την διάλυση της Γιουγκοσλαβίας στις αρχές την δεκαετίας του ‘90 έως και σήμερα, δυστυχώς ουδείς Έλλην πολιτικός δεν ανέτρεξε στην γεωγραφία της περιοχής και τις ιστορικές αναφορές την περίοδο των βαλκανικών πολέμων. Εκεί θα βρίσκαμε την εναλλακτική αλλά και τεκμηριωμένη εκατονταετή ονομασία για την περιοχή που βρίσκεται νοτίως της σύγχρονης Σερβίας.
    Μιας περιοχής που αποτελούσε σερβική κτήση μετά τους βαλκανικούς πολέμους του 1913 με την συνθήκη Βουκουρεστίου, συνεχίστηκε να αποτελεί κτήση του βασιλείου της Γιουγκοσλαβίας το 1918 έως και το 1941 οπότε και κατελήφθη από τον Χίτλερ προσωρινά. Ακολούθως επίσης από το 1946 έως το 1992 οπότε και διαλύθηκε η σοσιαλιστική ομοσπονδιακή δημοκρατία της Γιουγκοσλαβίας, η επίμαχη περιοχή της σημερινής FYROM ονομαζόταν είτε ως Vardarska, είτε ως Makedonija. Ασφαλώς εάν είχαμε προπαγανδίσει το τεκμηριωμένο εναλλακτικό όνομα Βαρντάρσκα, δεν θα βρισκόμασταν στην οικτρή διπλωματική θέση που βρισκόμαστε τώρα στο θέμα αυτό.

    Πιστεύω πως μία ελληνική εθνική κυβέρνηση πρέπει να επιμείνει στην εκατονταετή ονομασία Βαρντάρσκα (στα σλαβικά) ή Βαρδαρία (στα ελληνικά), αφού είναι η περισσότερο δόκιμη ονομασία με ιστορικές και γεωγραφικές ρίζες στον ποταμό Βάρνταρ (Βαρδάρης ή Αξιός) που διατρέχει την FYROM. Δεν αρκεί να αρνούμαστε να χρησιμοποιούν οι Σκοπιανοί την ονομασία Μακεδονία! Οφείλουμε να επενδύσουμε στην διαφήμιση της εναλλακτικής ονομασίας που συνάδει με τα ελληνικά συμφέροντα και κλείνει την πόρτα στον αλυτρωτισμό των “Σλαβομακεδόνων” που ονειρεύονται να ενωθούν με την “νότια Μακεδονία του Αιγαίου”. Πρέπει να πάψουμε πλέον να χρησιμοποιούμε τον προσωρινό όρο FYROM, ο οποίος εκτός από το ότι είναι γελοίος και ακατανόητος, εμπεριέχει την λέξη Μακεδονία ως συστατικό του ακρωνυμίου. Πράγματι εντός του κρατιδίου FYROM βρίσκονται τα αρχαία εδάφη της βόρειας Μακεδονίας αλλά και της Παιονίας. Αυτό όμως δεν δίνει το δικαίωμα στους Σκοπιανούς να μονοπωλούν την αδιαμφισβήτητα ελληνική ονομασία Μακεδονία, ούτε να παραχαράσουν την ιστορία και την γεωγραφία για να δώσουν το μητρικό γάλα και το υπαρξιακό νόημα στο νεογέννητο κρατίδιό τους. Λέγετέ με Vardarska λοιπόν!

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