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Makedonische Sprache im Mitelalter

Erstellt von Monkeydonian, 17.11.2010, 09:19 Uhr · 611 Antworten · 41.312 Aufrufe

  1. #91
    Avatar von Makedonac

    Registriert seit
    Zitat Zitat von Cyprus Beitrag anzeigen
    It´s propagandaaaaa timeeee!
    wieso hört ihr dann nicht auf damit?

  2. #92

    Registriert seit
    Zitat Zitat von Monkeydonian Beitrag anzeigen
    1.Warum das in diesem Buch - im Eingangsbeitrag - so ist, ist mir nicht eindeutig klar, jedoch wenn ich auf das Erscheinungsjahr schaue, könnte es sein das der Author Explizit damit die lokale "slawisch" sprachige Bevölkerung in Nordgriechenland ansprechen wollte.

    2....aber natürlich,wer denn konnte lesen, schreiben - sowohl "griechisch" als auch "slawisch"??
    Man sollte beachten das Makedoniens Bevölkerung bis in das 20 Jhdt. als "ungebildet" galt.

    Somit lässt sich dieser Umstand sehr leicht erklären, auch existieren Hinterlassenschaften in dem die "Sprache des Volkes" mit "griechische" Buchstaben verfasst wurde, damit Priester die Messen in der Sprache abhalten konnten die die Bevölkerung auch tatsächlich nutzte.

    Ein Manuskript das diese These unterstreicht ist die Konikovo Gospel.

    The Konikovo Gospel (Bibl.Patr.Alex. 268)

    A bilingual vernacular Gospel manuscript from Macedonia
    (late 18th – early 19th century)

    In the winter of 2003/04, researchers from the University of Helsinki found an interesting bilingual manuscript, written in what is now Greek Macedonia in the late 18th or early 19th century. It contains a Greek evangeliarium (Gospel lectionary for Sunday services) and its Slavic translation, both written in Greek letters. What makes the manuscript unique is its bilinguality, and the fact that both the Greek and the Slavic texts represent the vernacular, not the church language. The Slavic part is the oldest known text of greater scope that directly reflects the living dialects of Southern Macedonia. It is also the oldest known Gospel translation in Modern Macedonian.

    The beginning of the Slavic text, with corrections by Pavel Božigropski, was printed in Thessaloniki in 1852–1853, and these four pages have been known in Slavic studies as the “Konikovo Gospel” after Pavel’s home village (nowadays known as Dytikó). The newly found manuscript shows, however, that the translation came into being earlier and in a fashion other than has been assumed. The manuscript also reflects the sound structure of the local dialect better than the short printed text did.

    The manuscript must originally have contained about 124 pages, 74 of which have been preserved. The Slavic part is a valuable source for research into the dialects and more recent history of Macedonian.

    Hier noch einige Infos zur Konikovo Gospel:

    ISSUU Upload

    Erfahrung von Slavisten:

    The discovery
    The story begins in Alexandria, Egypt. The Greek-Orthodox Patriarchate of
    Alexandria has a library preserving a great number of valuable books and
    manuscripts. In describing and conserving the manuscripts, the Patriarchate
    has received significant help from the Academy of Finland’s Centre of Excellence, ‘Ancient and Medieval Greek Documents, Archives and Libraries’,
    led by Jaakko Frösén (cf. Frösén & Hakkarainen 2005). At the end of 2003,
    the Finnish historian and philologist Mika Hakkarainen, studying the mainly
    Greek manuscripts of the library, came across a relatively new evangeliary,
    perhaps from the end of the 18 th century, with the call number Bibl. Patr.
    Alex. 268. The manuscript contained parallel Greek and Slavonic columns,
    both written in Greek letters.
    Not being a Slavist himself, Hakkarainen contacted me, asking whether the manuscript might be of interest, and sent me digital photos on a compact disc.
    Some years earlier, Hakkarainen and I had participated in an interdiscip linary research project on the Balkans , wh ich is why it was natural for h im
    first to contact me. Later the cooperation between Slavists and Classical scholars proved several times to be indispensable for the study of this manuscript, as we will see.
    At the Department of Slavonic and Baltic Languages and Literatures, we
    recognised the Slavonic text of Manuscript 268 to be in a Macedonian dialect.
    Nina Graves, writing her doctoral dissertation on Macedonian grammar, was the first to identify the text as representing a type of Lower Vardar dialect and therefore coming from what is now Northern Greece. The text seemed very interesting in its linguistic details, and its orthographic solutions were admirably suited for writing Slavonic. We knew that some vernacular Macedonian Gospel texts written in Greek letters had existed in the 19 th century, but it was not immediately clear whether Manuscript 268 contained a text that was already well-known in scholarship or whether it was a new discovery. Of course, at this stage every philologist hopes to have found something previously unknown. The libraries of Finland are poor in Slavonic manuscripts – especially in South Slavonic manuscripts! – which is why their study does not have a strong tradition among the Finnish Slavists; it was thus not entirely obvious to us what to do next...

    ... Finally we arrived at a
    formulation that we later also used on the Konikovo home page: ‘What
    makes the manuscript unique is its bilinguality, and the fact that both the
    Greek and the Slavonic texts represent the vernacular, not the church language. The Slavonic part is the oldest known text of greater scope that directly reflects the living dialects of Southern Macedonia. It is also the oldest known Gospel translation in Modern Macedonian.’ The expression ‘oldest Modern’ might seem to be rather vague, if not outright circular, because ... what counts as the ‘ Modern ’ stage of a given language is only a scholarly convention. But fortunately there had been a clear break in Bible translations into Macedonian: Cyril and Methodius used the living Slavonic dialect of the Thessaloniki region in their translations in the 9 th century; thereafter came a hiatus of almost a millennium during which the Bible texts did not directly reflect the spoken language of the region; and then came our manuscript. Whenever the ‘Modern’ period of the Macedonian language began, it certainly was some time in that millennium. And the attempts to write the Macedonian vernacular in the Modern period had been based on more northern dialects, which is obviously why the discovery was so significant for the study of the endangered dialects of Southern (Aegean) Macedonia

    .... The central question was actually the use of the word ‘Macedonian’ to
    define the Slavonic language in the manuscript. Most of my Bulgarian colleagues probably say that the manuscript contains a Bulgarian text and that it is somewhat marginal for the history of the Bulgarian language. This is a more complicated question that I will address later in this essay: did we define the manuscript as Macedonian only to enhance its apparent significance?

    Weiter gehts hier, in der offiziellen Ausgabe der Universität von Helsinki

  3. #93

    Registriert seit
    Nochmal über die Konikovo Gospel:

    The Greeks recognized us three centuries ago!?

    By Atanas Kirovski
    Translated and edited by Risto Stefov

    Friday August 29, 2008

    Sensational discovery: 18th century gospel written in Macedonian

    The Konikovo gospel is the oldest record written in the Macedonian language, even older than Danail’s Lexicon Tetragloson which dates back to 1802. The text is written in an Aegean dialect, more precisely in the Voden-Enidzhevardar folk language, using the Greek alphabet, and seems to be the first attempt at popularizing the Macedonian folk language and rejecting the Church-Slavonic language.

    The oldest discovered written record of the Macedonian folk language was found in the Alexandrian Library by a team of Finnish researchers. The discovered book was published in 1852 in Solun and is known as the Kokinovo Gospel. Its discovery is having Slavists saying that this is a first-class sensation. The gospel is written in the same folk Macedonian language that was spoken at the end of the 18th century and is the oldest written record found to contain the Aegean dialect of the Macedonians who lived in Greece. The book was named after Kokinovo, the village from which its author/editor Pavle Bozhigropski originated and is signed Orthodox clerk Pavel born in Voden Region. Linguists believe the original version on which Pavel Bozhigropski was doing his editing is the oldest record of the Macedonian language ever found, older than Adzhi Danail from Moskopole’s Lexicon Tetragloson which dates back to 1802, but sadly there is no information on its author. The text is written in an Aegean dialect, more precisely in the Voden-Enidzhevardar folk language, using the Greek alphabet, and seems to be a first attempt at popularizing the Macedonian folk language and rejecting the Church-Slavonic language.

    In August of this year the Finnish academy of Arts and Sciences made the discovery of “The Konikovo Gospel” known through the editorship of Jouko Lindstedt and Yuhani Nuorluoto from Finland . The editor from Macedonia was Professor Ljudmil Spasov.

    This original handwritten gospel represents a splendid but somewhat damaged specimen of a book. The damage appears to be from excessive use. There are also many droplets of candle wax and oil on it and the pages at the lower edge are worn down from turning. There are also holes made by worms typical of old documents found in libraries.

    Greek anti-Macedonian politics

    Today, according to the Finnish publishers, in Konikovo generally speaking there are no Macedonians because they were cleansed from the village between 1912 and 1928, and the Greeks have renamed the village to Ditiko where only imported Christian settlers from Turkey live. The Voden dialect which was used to write the gospel was investigated by the Finns and with help from Vinizhito volunteers was discovered to also exist in Griva, a neighbouring village of Kokinovo . The foreigners in the team including those from Finland , who met the Macedonian population in Greece , were delighted that finally a new Greece was being uncovered, which they say they always knew existed but for them it was inaccessible.

    Victor Freedman professor of Balkan and Slavic studies from Chicago wrote that the discovery of the Konikovo gospel is priceless: “The dialect in the Konikovo gospel is of extraordinary importance because it comes from the region that was given to Greece after the Balkan Wars in 1913. A region where later hundreds of thousands of refugees who only spoke Greek and Turkish were settled as a result of population exchanges between Greece and Turkey (1922-1923). Greece , between the two world wars, attempted to create a homogeneous state by destroying all minority languages. A little later many violent battles were fought in this region especially during the Greek Civil War which resulted in thousands of Macedonians being evicted after 1948, leaving very few to speak this dialect today.”

    The significance of the written material found is enormous because persecution against the Macedonian language and literature dates back to the time of the Byzantines to the 11th century, when all the books written in the Cyrillic alphabet were destroyed, and by the beginning of the 18th century the Cyrillic language in Greece was completely eradicated. The gospel represents evidence of resistance against Greek politics.

    During the Ottoman occupation, even though miliets (people) were identified by their religion, Orthodox Christians for example, in the non-Muslim categories there was always awareness that not only religion, but also language represented a division in people which became a basis for national identity, and precisely for that reason the gospel was written in the Macedonian folk language.

    Professor Freedman writes: “Our understanding of the development of the Macedonian language and identity in the 18th century and early 19th century is considerably enriched with the discovery of the Konikovo gospel because this is the period from which the written form of the language appeared from which today the standard Macedonian language is derived. The Konikovo gospel is the earliest text discovered to use the colloquial Macedonian language as a written language. And while Pavle Bozhigropski the author attempts to write Macedonian for the first time, with his own corrections he is attempting to standardize that language!

    Greek opposition to the Macedonians in Greece continues from that time to today, as attested by the publication of the Abecedar in 1925, intended as a primer for the Macedonians in Northern Greece but never used.

    About ourselves

    Strange as it may seem even unreal and completely incredible, but at a time when Macedonia is in a collision course with Greece around the choice of a name, language and identity, the Ministry of Education would not grant the Macedonian scientific team 6,000 euros, about 2,000 euros per year, to investigate this exceptional find which is of great importance for the assertion of the Macedonian identity and for proving the existence of the Macedonians in Greece. The findings however were published by the Finnish Academy of Arts and Sciences in Helsinki with help from the Macedonians from the professorship of Macedonian language at the University Kiril and Metodi under the leadership of Professor Ljubomir Spasov and with much appreciated help from the Vinozhito volunteers.

  4. #94

    Registriert seit
    Zitat Zitat von Cyprus Beitrag anzeigen
    Ich erkärs dir. Wenn du dich mit mir auf Griechisch unterhälst, tust du es in Wahrheit garnicht.

    Mathematisch sieht es so aus:

    Griechisch = Tod
    Yunan spricht Griechisch = Tod
    Yunan spricht Tod = Griechisch
    Yunan ist Tod = Grieche
    Toter Grieche = Yunan

    und Monkey ist ein Idiot.
    Hahahahha ich lach mir einen ab!!!

    Y = X
    12 + y = x
    12 + x = y
    12 + y = x
    12 + x = y

    (Neues Gleichungssystem - über die toten Griechen)

    y = griechisch
    x = tod
    12 = yunan

  5. #95
    Avatar von Lahutari

    Registriert seit
    Zitat Zitat von H3llas Beitrag anzeigen
    was soll ich dir fuer infos geben?
    so wie ein bairisch ein deutscher dialekt ist, ist auch makedonisch, thessalisch unsw..griechischer dialekt ja sogar die kretaner haben ein dialekt..die haben in jede ihre ende anstat s dagenh die sch

    ich z.b habe ein thessalischen dialekt

  6. #96

    Registriert seit
    Zitat Zitat von Arbnor Beitrag anzeigen

    Sehr gut,

    mehr solche infos, findest du HIER und das auch HIER

    PS: Und du als Albaner, könntest das HIER interessant finden (Na ja, ich seh das ein bisschen kritischer)

  7. #97
    Avatar von artemi

    Registriert seit
    .. he switched from his usual Greek speech to yell at his guards in Macedonian. Later still his soldiers mocked an officer on trial for adressing them in Greek rather than normal Macedonian of the ranks. Macedonians were known for their odd words and strange pronunciation - they could never quite get Greek sounds right even when they tried.

  8. #98

    Registriert seit
    Mal ne dumme Frage ^^
    welche Sprache hat Alexander der Große gesprochen?

  9. #99
    Avatar von artemi

    Registriert seit
    Zitat Zitat von Karl der Kuehne Beitrag anzeigen
    Mal ne dumme Frage ^^
    welche Sprache hat Alexander der Große gesprochen?
    irgendwas zwischen dorisch und thrakoillyrisch

  10. #100
    Avatar von specialForces

    Registriert seit
    Jeremiah Ruso in “The Chronicles of Moscovia” clearly states that the Russians, meaning the Moscowians had the same language as the ancient Macedonians; and King Phillip, the father of Alexander the Macedonian was born among them, who (as Plutarch in “The life of Alexander”, Yustin in VIIIth book and Sabelik in the III book of “Eneida”, and others tell us) submitted the strongest towns in Greece under his laws, enslaved Greece (who until then had freedom) and through his glorious deeds reached the greatness of the most famous kings. His son Alexander the Macedonian expanded through the boundaries of the earth (according to the First book of Macabians, chapter 1), took the treasures of many people, even making the earth numb. After Alexander’s death, Macedonians governed all nations in the world as well as the Egyptians for 276 years” says Mauro Orbini.

    From the book “The Kingdom of the Slavs” by Mauro Orbini, published in 1601, in Pezaro, page 168 - 171.

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